Ripper Victims?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Jonathan,

McKenzie was murdered about 3 weeks after Le Grand went to prison, and Coles 4 months before his release. The timing is interesting, and I've flirted with the idea that an accomplice (BS Man?) committed the murders (or at least McKenzie) to take attention off Le Grand for the crimes. While this may be true, I'm by no means convinced of the innocence of Sadler in the Coles case. But to answer your question, Le Grand was behind bars for both McKenzie and Coles.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jonathan H]

If you remove Druitt, the timing of whose demise locks in Kelly as the 'last' victim, the other Whitechapel murders then come into play as possible murders by the same hand.

Tom,

Could Le Grand have killed Coles?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Stan. Why the mention of Chapman? He makes an even less likely Torso suspect than he does a Ripper suspect.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sdreid]

Might as well kick off the Quasquicentennial with mention of the Paris torso that was found in November of 1886. Where was George Chapman 125 years ago?

[Phil H]

I don't for a moment believe that the two killers were the same man.

For one thing their "territories" were different. As were their modes of murder.

I believe that the Torso Killer was AWARE of "Jack" at least - his placing of the Pinchen St torso on his rival's territory suggests that. The Torso Killer also seems to have a sense of humour, as Pichen St and the choice of New Scotland Yard suggest.

"Jack" MIGHT have been aware of the Torso Killer if his attempts to decapitate some victims were exactly that, and not just too deep throat cutting.

Mei Trow in his recent book on the Torso Killings suggests that a cat meat factory might have been a suitable venue for cutting up human corpses. No 29 Hanbury St had a cats' meat shop in its ground floor front room. So could "Jack" have known and worked with the Torso Killer and thus have been familiar with the layout of No 29?

The games one could play are fascinating, but I don't think worth much unless some evidential link could be suggested or forged.

Phil

[Hunter]

'Torso murders' or murders followed by dismemberment and then disposal of the remains had a long history throughout the latter half of the 19th century in the greater London area. In a heavily populated area it would have been perceived as a safe way to destroy evidence and avoid prosecution - although it didn't work out so well for Henry Wainwright. He probably should have left Harriet Lane buried where she was.

[Mads]

Thank Tom! I've been stuck on that idea for a while now so it's good to clear my mind and try again at this whole crime-solving thing

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Mads. That's not a very popular idea to discuss on the boards these days, so look out for some of the responses (or lack thereof) you get! In the off chance they were the same killer, I don't think split personality would play into it. It would be a remarkable anomaly for a person to have two separate personalities that are different serial killers. Even more remarkable that both personalities got away with it! If they were the same person(s), then the motives between the two series would have to have been very different. In the case of the Torso murders, very little effort went into the actual murder. It was merely a means to an end. However, this killer went to great lengths to dispose of the bodies and keep the identities of the victims from being discovered. The Ripper, by contrast, put himself at great risk to commit the murders themselves, and doesn't seem to have been concerned about the identity of the victims being found out.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Mads]

I have been thinking lately about these murders and I am wondering- was JtR the same person as the torso killer? I believe that JtR had multiple personalities, one was the Ripper, another was the Torso Killer and at least one was "normal". Any opinions?