Torso Murders

[Fisherman]

I will respond to the questions put to me in a few days. I have other things to tend to presently, but I will return in a few days hopefully.

[Trevor Marriott]

Well your sense of humor is only slightly worse than your ability to insult and to reason.

I'll answer your question-then done with you and your soul mate Trevor.

You don't need cause of death to determine some one has been murdered.


Can you comprehend that ?

The only thing that can be comprehended, is that if you had a brain you would be dangerous. shakehead:

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Ginger]

You don't need cause of death to determine some one has been murdered.

You'll pardon my ignorance, I pray, but how can you be certain that a murder has taken place without knowing how the victim died? I can think of some cases (the Green Bicycle affair, for instance), where the question couldn't be answered for sure even knowing exactly how the victim died.

[Abby Normal]

Hey fish
Just throwing some ideas around:

If torso man and the ripper were the same, perhaps he started killing on the streets to heighten the pleasure? Perhaps tabram(or Millwood) were his trigger event for killing on the streets. As in it wasn't really planned, but after it happened he liked it and continued, as well as luring back to his torso man bolt hole. And/or the ripper victims wouldn't go back with him to his place.

I don't know, just kicking around ideas.

[Abby Normal]

Abby,
Just the reply I expected.Why not try to answer the questions.
That the sun rises doesn't have to be proven,it is a legal acceptance.
The cause of death of the Torso victims isn't.

Anyhow, welcome to Clown Town.They tell me it recently advertised for a Mayor and 1000 idiots applied.All were accepted,mostly Ripperologists.I would have got the job,but you were thought to be more acceptable.

Well your sense of humor is only slightly worse than your ability to insult and to reason.

I'll answer your question-then done with you and your soul mate Trevor.

You don't need cause of death to determine some one has been murdered.


Can you comprehend that ?

[harry]

Abby,
Just the reply I expected.Why not try to answer the questions.
That the sun rises doesn't have to be proven,it is a legal acceptance.
The cause of death of the Torso victims isn't.

Anyhow, welcome to Clown Town.They tell me it recently advertised for a Mayor and 1000 idiots applied.All were accepted,mostly Ripperologists.I would have got the job,but you were thought to be more acceptable.

[Robert St Devil]

Thanks, Pierre. Would you refresh my memory on which victims you thought were murdered by jack the ripper? I lost track after our doorknob discussion.

[Pierre]

An explanation based on what, Pierre?

Sources, naturally. Explanations must always be based on sources.

Kind regards, Pierre

[Robert St Devil]

An explanation based on what, Pierre?

[Pierre]

Pierre,

The time frame from finding the arm [Sept 11th] and the leg [Oct 17th] is over a month. Dr Neville being the first to examine a body part puts death around September 8th . Dr Bond, over a month later after examining the leg and foot states, late August or early September. What reasonable conclusion can you draw from that?

I draw the conclusion that if it was a murder and the murder was committed around 5th September, we can make a time line with explanations for every murder.

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Pierre,

The time frame from finding the arm [Sept 11th] and the leg [Oct 17th] is over a month. Dr Neville being the first to examine a body part puts death around September 8th . Dr Bond, over a month later after examining the leg and foot states, late August or early September. What reasonable conclusion can you draw from that?

[jerryd]

Hi,

But naturally, the 5th and not be hypothesized as reliable.

Regards, Pierre

Not sure what you are getting at, Pierre?? The exact date of death would be very hard to determine and I agree, if that's what you mean.

[Pierre]

Joshua,

If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Bond stated his opinion on death after examining the leg on the 17th of October. And he did give early September as an option. Six weeks prior to the 17th of October is around the 5th of September.

Morning Advertiser
23 October 1888

Mr. Bond, divisional surgeon, said, having examined the remains found on the 17th inst., he saw that they consisted of a leg and foot, which had undoubtedly been lying there several weeks. Decomposition had taken place on the spot, as the condition of the earth showed. On the following day Mr. Hepburn and witness again examined the leg, and found that it had been divided at the knee-joint, and very cleverly disarticulated so that the mains seemed to correspond with the other portions of the body found, and he had no doubt belonged to it. He was fully of opinion that the body had lain where it was for several weeks, and had decomposed there. The brickwork was saturated with decomposing fluid. He believed that death took place about the end of August or beginning of September. It was impossible that the appearances presented could have resulted from exposure for two or three days. The foot was very well shaped, and was that of a well-to-do person.

Hi,

But naturally, the 5th and not be hypothesized as reliable.

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Another couple of questions about the Pinchin St. victim (only bc i,ve seen the term ,fetus, and ,abortion, mentioned recently).

1. Was the victim pregnant?
2. If so, would her pregnancy have been apparent, was ahe showing?
3. If she wasn,t at that stage of ,showing, how would her killer know she was pregnant?

Apologies if i,m stalling the thread

Dr Phillips says;

London Evening News And Post September 24, 1889

The womb was an unimpregnated one and probably never had be impregnated.

[Pierre]

Jackson had her abdominal cavity opened up all the way - Chapman had her abdominal cavity opened up all the way.

Jackson had her uterus removed, together with part of the bladder attached - Chapman had her uterus removed together with part of the bladder attached.

Jackson was a destitute prostitute - Chapman was a destitute prostitute

Jackson had her abdominal wall removed in large flaps - Chapman had her abdominal wall removed in large flaps.

The cuts to the body of Jackson were very skilfully made, impressing the medicos who examined her - the cuts to the body of Chapman were skilfull made, impressing the medico who examined her.

Maybe we can recognize a certain killer after all, when looking at the damage done to Jackson?

Hi Fisherman,

I have not had the time to look at these "facts" yet, since other things are happening right now. But since you seem to think that Lechmere was the Torso killer (if there was such a person) and Jack the Ripper in one and the same person - have you got at least some source for each murder that connects him to the whole series of murders that you postulate, and if you have, which is the series of murders?

If you put together Jack the Ripper and the Torso killer the correct series could be:

Nichols - Chapman - Whitehall victim - Stride - Eddowes - Kelly - Jackson - Pinchin Street victim - McKenzie.

What is your suggestion?

Regards, Pierre