overkill

[Shelley]

Chava,
And Tabram's head could have hit the wall in an accident whilst being attacked.

[Shelley]

Hi,
The word overkill was mentioned on the Tabram podcast, and it dawned on me that frenzy would sum up this murder.
I have always viewed Tabram as being the first of the series, and I placed importance on the number of wounds ie 39, and that notion has not left me, but there is a alternative view, which is original, that being that Martha was attacked not by a man but my no other then her drinking companion of that evening Pearly Poll.
Reasons for this include, the weapon causing the wounds was according to Killeen a short bladed knife , except for one wound to the heart.
Is it therefore not inconceivable that the weapon used, may have been the type carried by a woman?
I am not aware of the figures involving overkill, but I would suggest that murders committed by women, using the gun/knife would involve just that.
I only to well remember in my youth having a friend who acted violently on me, attacking me whilst we were both under the influence for no reason then i did not agree with him over some trifle matter, and his attack on me was in a total frenzied mode using fists and feet in a vicious attack which left me needing many stitches
Within seconds his attitude returned to normal. and he could not have been more sorry and confused.
If one could relate that to a scenerio of Tabram/Pearly, we could have PP losing it, producing a short bladed knife, and attacking Tabram in a frenzy.
Realizing what she had done , and aware that her friend was still alive, and aware that her friend jhad somewhere on her person, a long bladed knife that she carried, used that to finish her of.
A speculative explanation, but original, the masculine Pearly Poll losing her rag, with her drinking companion, kills her in a fit of diminished responsibility, and in the aftermath becomes suicidal, and then attempts to bring soldiers into suspicion.
Either that or should i go back to my 39 theory.??
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard,
overkill is actually in the category of Signature, it is refered to ' Something which has nothing to do with the actual killing itself '.....So for the books sake of MO & signature, Tabram's death wouldn't neccessary be classified as an ' Overkill ', all that was stated was the stab to the heart alone could have killed Tabram, but also blood loss from the wounds could also have caused her death, well at the finish anyway. Tabram had no signatures from her killer/s so it seems.

P.S. That's why i say the deep-throat cutting in the canocial list, start with Nicholls, where her head was nearly severed, is indeed a mixture of MO & Signature, because that was evidentley ' Overkill '.

[Chava]

...or nobody wanted to have heard anything for a variety of reasons. The couple living in the room next to the murder site comes to mind (unfortunately I forgot the name though ) who were most likely to have heard something (if not MUST have heard, due to the short distance), but by admitting to that fact would have had to admit that they did nothing to ascertain the origin of these noises.

It's possible she was silenced by a blow to the head just before she reached the landing. Let's posit the possibility that she was leading her punter up the stairs to that nice dark area. He clubs her across the head just as she gets there, and grabs her to make sure she doesn't fall with a thump. (He must have been strong to be able to do this!) He lays her out and commences to stab. She is unconscious at first and then dead. And let's not forget the 'effusion of blood' in the cranial area.

No noise whatsoever from this scenario. And, like other Ripper kills, the victim is silenced immediately and dead very very quickly thereafter. It's after they are gone that he really gets down to work.

[Hellrider]

What I don't get is how no-one heard Tabram scream or anything.

...or nobody wanted to have heard anything for a variety of reasons. The couple living in the room next to the murder site comes to mind (unfortunately I forgot the name though ) who were most likely to have heard something (if not MUST have heard, due to the short distance), but by admitting to that fact would have had to admit that they did nothing to ascertain the origin of these noises.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

What I don't get is how no-one heard Tabram scream or anything.

[Bob Hinton]

Amount of wounds

The number of wounds on Martha Tabram has no real significance. In a frenzied attack it is just about impossible to count the number of blows struck accurately.

[harry]

Richard,
What of a person described as'Devoid of emotion'.Do you not think a person described such,as being capable of the overkill you so describe? Are there such people?Would they show frenzy?

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
The word overkill was mentioned on the Tabram podcast, and it dawned on me that frenzy would sum up this murder.
I have always viewed Tabram as being the first of the series, and I placed importance on the number of wounds ie 39, and that notion has not left me, but there is a alternative view, which is original, that being that Martha was attacked not by a man but my no other then her drinking companion of that evening Pearly Poll.
Reasons for this include, the weapon causing the wounds was according to Killeen a short bladed knife , except for one wound to the heart.
Is it therefore not inconceivable that the weapon used, may have been the type carried by a woman?
I am not aware of the figures involving overkill, but I would suggest that murders committed by women, using the gun/knife would involve just that.
I only to well remember in my youth having a friend who acted violently on me, attacking me whilst we were both under the influence for no reason then i did not agree with him over some trifle matter, and his attack on me was in a total frenzied mode using fists and feet in a vicious attack which left me needing many stitches
Within seconds his attitude returned to normal. and he could not have been more sorry and confused.
If one could relate that to a scenerio of Tabram/Pearly, we could have PP losing it, producing a short bladed knife, and attacking Tabram in a frenzy.
Realizing what she had done , and aware that her friend was still alive, and aware that her friend jhad somewhere on her person, a long bladed knife that she carried, used that to finish her of.
A speculative explanation, but original, the masculine Pearly Poll losing her rag, with her drinking companion, kills her in a fit of diminished responsibility, and in the aftermath becomes suicidal, and then attempts to bring soldiers into suspicion.
Either that or should i go back to my 39 theory.??
Regards Richard.