110th Anniversary....

[Jeff Leahy]

Jeff writes:

"She probably had a more painful death than the others. "

Unless, of course, she was knocked unconscious by that blow to the head! Which could in itīs turn explain the lack of sounds from her, as well as the fact that she had no defence wounds at all on her hands and arms, in spite of the fact that she was stabbed nigh on forty times, apparently while alive. In fact, there seems to be no stabs in either arms or legs. They are all stabs to the trunk, the neck and the genital area, apart from the one wound that was NOT a stab, but instead a three-inch long and one inch deep cut to the lower abdomen.

All in all, maybe we have a killer who deliberately stabs away at a woman who is still alive, but not moving or reacting to the stabs. And somewhere along this process, he changes from stabbing to cutting.

Something to ponder for those who say that it was a simple case of frenzy, unrelated to the Ripper.
In my world it was not a simple case, it was not frenzy - but it WAS the Ripper.

The best, all!

Fisherman

Perhaps a more simple solution is that Martha was strangled by an inexperienced Ripper...she was unconcious but not dead. She awoke in agony and Jack paniced...throughing him into a frenzy?

If you study Martha's photo she does appear puffy around the mouth?

Just a thought

Pirate

[Uncle Jack]

Today is the 110th anniversary of Martha Tabram's murder.

Lol. Don't know what I was thinking the day I posted that!! I am crap at maths.... Lol.

[Nicola]

Jeff writes:

"She probably had a more painful death than the others. "

Unless, of course, she was knocked unconscious by that blow to the head! Which could in itīs turn explain the lack of sounds from her, as well as the fact that she had no defence wounds at all on her hands and arms, in spite of the fact that she was stabbed nigh on forty times, apparently while alive. In fact, there seems to be no stabs in either arms or legs. They are all stabs to the trunk, the neck and the genital area, apart from the one wound that was NOT a stab, but instead a three-inch long and one inch deep cut to the lower abdomen.

All in all, maybe we have a killer who deliberately stabs away at a woman who is still alive, but not moving or reacting to the stabs. And somewhere along this process, he changes from stabbing to cutting.

Something to ponder for those who say that it was a simple case of frenzy, unrelated to the Ripper.
In my world it was not a simple case, it was not frenzy - but it WAS the Ripper.

The best, all!

Fisherman

Hello,I agree with you.

I have a friend who argues all the day long that Martha wasn't the beginning,that he wouldn't have changed so much from her to Polly Ncihols.

The same can be said for how he attacked Annie Chapman compared to his previous attack.Yet both are considered to be tried and true Ripper victims.

He could have did the same thing with Martha. Maybe there were things he liked doing but because Martha was his first kill,he was nervous. He tried them with Polly and developed them even further with Annie.

[Nicola]

RIP,Martha.


I have always held that she was the first Ripper killing. My friend vehemently disagrees with me,citing MO and other things.

I go by my gut in all things and it tells me Martha was the first. As macabre as this sounds,serial killers have to practice,learn what they like and don't like. With Martha,he has just starting and he was fulfilling a fantasy he had probably had for years. As awful as this sounds,he was nervous and excited. He had to learn what he liked and as you are learning,you change things and keep others.

[Fisherman]

Out of curiosity: Just how detailed a descrition would it be able to get of the quarter encircled by George Yard, Whitechapel High Street, Commercial Street and Wentworth Street? Does anybody know? Can anybody offer a drawing of it? I believe there was a school with an adjacent schoolyard situated in the middle, but what was the rest made up of?

Anybody out there who can help?

The best, all!
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Jeff writes:

"She probably had a more painful death than the others. "

Unless, of course, she was knocked unconscious by that blow to the head! Which could in itīs turn explain the lack of sounds from her, as well as the fact that she had no defence wounds at all on her hands and arms, in spite of the fact that she was stabbed nigh on forty times, apparently while alive. In fact, there seems to be no stabs in either arms or legs. They are all stabs to the trunk, the neck and the genital area, apart from the one wound that was NOT a stab, but instead a three-inch long and one inch deep cut to the lower abdomen.

All in all, maybe we have a killer who deliberately stabs away at a woman who is still alive, but not moving or reacting to the stabs. And somewhere along this process, he changes from stabbing to cutting.

Something to ponder for those who say that it was a simple case of frenzy, unrelated to the Ripper.
In my world it was not a simple case, it was not frenzy - but it WAS the Ripper.

The best, all!

Fisherman

[Celesta]

I've always had her down as a victim...the canon is really just the McNaughten Five..

She probably had a more painful death than the others.

May she rest in peace.

Pirate

Yes, Jack, I think you may be right about that. Of course, Emma Smith certainly suffered as well, whether we consider her a suspect or not.

Best,

Cel

[steje73]

It just goes to show how good the doctors were then. Even being brutally murdered wasn't necessarily fatal.
R.I.P. Martha, whoever was responsible.

[Jeff Leahy]

I've always had her down as a victim...the canon is really just the McNaughten Five..

She probably had a more painful death than the others.

May she rest in peace.

Pirate

[sdreid]

Yes, condolences to Martha.

It's an interesting case to study forgetting whether she was a Ripper victim or not.

[Celesta]

Rest in Peace, Mrs. Turner.

[Mike Covell]

But you ARE called Mike...hmmm...

Ha, but not that Mike!

I have also been named on a Hoax Forum in relation to Robert D'Onston stephenson and had to join to let them know I was real!

[Iain Wilson]

NO, although someone has accused me of writing the Ripper Diary!! That wasn't me either!

But you ARE called Mike...hmmm...

[Mike Covell]

You didn't have a hand in The Ripper and the Royals did you?

NO, although someone has accused me of writing the Ripper Diary!! That wasn't me either!

[Iain Wilson]

Perhaps Martha Tabram didn't die in 1888, but had a secret identity and lived until 1898?

You didn't have a hand in The Ripper and the Royals did you?