A gang?

[Pcdunn]

Did the DNA report from Sweden connect to Sutcliffe?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

That's news to me P.I

Possibly because the Swedes have cited a statute of limitations objection to investigating.

I haven't looked at those two cases for the a while, but I believe they had a semen sample(s).

[mpriestnall]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources...wedish_murders

Regards Darryl

Ps I believe he was being looked at for unsolved early attacks on women before his killing spree as well

Thanks for the link. An interesting article.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources...wedish_murders

Regards Darryl

Ps I believe he was being looked at for unsolved early attacks on women before his killing spree as well

Yes.

That's the article I meant, although there are others.

The Swedes refused to investigate.

[Darryl Kenyon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/the_ripper_and_the_swedish_murders

Regards Darryl

Ps I believe he was being looked at for unsolved early attacks on women before his killing spree as well

[mpriestnall]

By the way, have any of you heard about the suspicion that Sutcliffe committed two murders in Sweden?

News to me too. On a lorry trip?

[Ms Diddles]

By the way, have any of you heard about the suspicion that Sutcliffe committed two murders in Sweden?

That's news to me P.I

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I'd never heard that about Sutcliffe, Wulf.

That's a really disturbing image.

By the way, have any of you heard about the suspicion that Sutcliffe committed two murders in Sweden?

[Aethelwulf]

I'd never heard that about Sutcliffe, Wulf.

That's a really disturbing image.

Really chilling. If you search for 'clothes sutcliffe was wearing when caught' you'll find plenty of stories about it. This from Wiki:

When Sutcliffe was stripped at the police station he was wearing an inverted V-necked jumper under his trousers. The sleeves had been pulled over his legs and the V-neck exposed his genital area. The fronts of the elbows were padded to protect his knees as, presumably, he knelt over his victims' corpses. The sexual implications of this outfit were considered obvious but it was not known to the public until published in 2003.<sup>[29]

[29]</sup> Bilton, Michael (2012) [2003]. Wicked Beyond Belief: The hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper. London: Harper Press / Harper Collins. ISBN 9780007169634.

I don't think it's a done deal that Smith and Tabram were not ripper victims. I would say Tabram very likely, Smith I'm 50/50 just because it is relatively close in time to the others and clearly very perverted. Although not a gang, I think Sutcliffe's first recorded attack was when he was in car with a friend, he ran off and bashed a woman over the head with a rock filled sock. In a similar way, Smith's attacker could have been with friends but apart/nearby if that makes sense. They may also not have cared.

[Ms Diddles]

Sutcliffe's attacks sound similar to Tabram and they don't look sexual (apart from one where i think he used a beer bottle). However, a few years ago now the police released a photo of the clothes he was wearing when arrested - an inverted jumper with his legs through the arms and his crotch exposed through the neck, suggesting his one and only motivation was sexual. On one level, you could argue a man attacking a woman in the way Tabram was might hint at an underlying sexual motive expressed as a hatred of women , even if not assaulted.

I'd never heard that about Sutcliffe, Wulf.

That's a really disturbing image.

[Ms Diddles]

Bearing in mind it was dark on the landing, I’m not sure how much of a handicap blindness would have been. The contusion on her head may have been the result of a blow that stunned her. As for the possibility of strangulation, Dr Killeen didn’t mention that, I think it’s a conclusion drawn from the fact that her tongue appears swollen in the photo of her. But I think there are other causes of post mortem swelling of the tongue.

These other examples don’t have to be identical to Tabram and Smith, say, they are just examples of extreme violence against women that could have led to death.

I seem to remember some time back compiling a list of knife attacks on women in London in the LVP. There were quite a few cases on there.

Obviously prostitutes were particularly vulnerable to this kind of violence and since their occupation was selling sex we shouldn’t be too surprised that there might be a sexual aspect to attacks on them. That said, I struggle with idea that the attack on Tabram had a sexual focus.

Hi Mr B,

Didn't Dr Killeen state that the focus of the stab wounds was the breasts, stomach and groin area?

That sounds like a sexual thing to me (although I suppose it could just mean that the whole torso area minus the head and limbs was the target).

[Aethelwulf]

Obviously prostitutes were particularly vulnerable to this kind of violence and since their occupation was selling sex we shouldn’t be too surprised that there might be a sexual aspect to attacks on them. That said, I struggle with idea that the attack on Tabram had a sexual focus.

Sutcliffe's attacks sound similar to Tabram and they don't look sexual (apart from one where i think he used a beer bottle). However, a few years ago now the police released a photo of the clothes he was wearing when arrested - an inverted jumper with his legs through the arms and his crotch exposed through the neck, suggesting his one and only motivation was sexual. On one level, you could argue a man attacking a woman in the way Tabram was might hint at an underlying sexual motive expressed as a hatred of women , even if not assaulted.

[MrBarnett]

Interesting again. Sounds a bit different in nature though - crowd in a market. One thing that surprises me about Tabram is that given all that was done to her, no one heard a sound. Wasn't there a woman in a building nearby who said she must have been sleeping very close to the murder spot and heard nothing. Could a blind person have done all that in total silence? I mean, make a mistake because he couldn't see and allow her to scream? Wasn't there a feeling Tabram had been strangled as well?

Bearing in mind it was dark on the landing, I’m not sure how much of a handicap blindness would have been. The contusion on her head may have been the result of a blow that stunned her. As for the possibility of strangulation, Dr Killeen didn’t mention that, I think it’s a conclusion drawn from the fact that her tongue appears swollen in the photo of her. But I think there are other causes of post mortem swelling of the tongue.

These other examples don’t have to be identical to Tabram and Smith, say, they are just examples of extreme violence against women that could have led to death.

I seem to remember some time back compiling a list of knife attacks on women in London in the LVP. There were quite a few cases on there.

Obviously prostitutes were particularly vulnerable to this kind of violence and since their occupation was selling sex we shouldn’t be too surprised that there might be a sexual aspect to attacks on them. That said, I struggle with idea that the attack on Tabram had a sexual focus.

[Aethelwulf]

The attack I find most intriguing is the one carried out by the blind laces seller near Spitalfields Market on 8th September, 1889. He ‘felled’ his female guide with a blow and proceed to stab her several times. If the crowd hadn’t intervened, it might have ended up an almost carbon copy of the Tabram murder.

Annoyingly, the attacker’s name is proving elusive, although I have a candidate in mind. A vicious blind laces seller who went on to marry … Pearly Poll.

Interesting again. Sounds a bit different in nature though - crowd in a market. One thing that surprises me about Tabram is that given all that was done to her, no one heard a sound. Wasn't there a woman in a building nearby who said she must have been sleeping very close to the murder spot and heard nothing. Could a blind person have done all that in total silence? I mean, make a mistake because he couldn't see and allow her to scream? Wasn't there a feeling Tabram had been strangled as well?

[MrBarnett]

We could start with the one-woman crime-wave known as Biddy the Chiver. Her violence crossed over into the early 1900s, but her nickname was earned in the 1890s. Chiver = knifer.