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Location of Annie Millwood's attack

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  • #31
    Just to point out that Klosowski wasn't living in the White Hart in late Summer/Autumn 1888. Assuming he'd even arrived in London by the time of the Tabram/Nichols murders (which is by no means certain), his earliest known address was in the West India Dock Road, which is a long way off the map.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      Just to point out that Klosowski wasn't living in the White Hart in late Summer/Autumn 1888. Assuming he'd even arrived in London by the time of the Tabram/Nichols murders (which is by no means certain), his earliest known address was in the West India Dock Road, which is a long way off the map.
      hey sam
      I thought he was at cable street during the ripper murders?

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      • #33
        You are both right. His "earliest known address" was 70 West India Dock Road in Poplar. He then moved to 126 Cable Street (where he was likely living at the time of the murders).

        Wolf.

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        • #34
          Also, although we don't know exactly where Tumblety was living during the murders it wasn't Batty Street.

          Wolf.

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          • #35
            Hi Wolf,

            Thanks for that. I grabbed the location for Klosowski from A-Z's map, and I forget where and when I had found Tumblety's address as I've marked it but am not surprised to find that it may be highly dubious (again, the location associated with Druitt is, I believe, not considered "safe" to make and I'm not claiming it is; If my memory serves me correct (and that's a huge if), I believe A-Z places the lodging house of the "unknown lodger" next to it though, so that location could be of interest to both Druitt proponents, who must prove this location was at the very least available to him in 1888, and possibly to "lodger proponents"). Again, not to sound like a broken record, but do note that the focus around the "Druit/lodger" area does come from the least tested version of what I'm working on, and also, there are a few assumptions one has to make about JtR before considering geoprofiling at all; first his residence was a stable location over the course of the series and second, he's not a commuter. If either of those assumptions are wrong, it's not going to work all that well.

            Of course, if Millwood and/or Tabram were part of JtR's series, then the pattern of locations changes quite a bit, with much higher concentrations in the N-S corridor in the west, and the analysis is sensitive to that change in pattern. Which brings in the third major assumption, what offenses are linked? And you cannot argue linkage simply because a particular set of offenses produces a profile that fits your suspect.

            - Jeff

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            • #36
              Oh, I believe Pizer (AKA Leather Apron, though I recognize some question this), was arrested on Mulberry street, which I think places him midway between where I located Kaminsky and Kosminsky.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by John Malcolm View Post
                Jeff, thanks for the link to the article. The very well-researched article Who Was Annie Millwood? by Mark Ripper (The Whitechapel Society Journal #22, 2008 - also reprinted in the book 21 Years of Jack the Ripper and the Whitechapel Society) is worth a look. The answer as to where her attack occurred still seems to be a mystery though.
                Thanks John, I seem to have missed your post earlier. My apologies for not responding sooner.

                - Jeff

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post
                  Oh, I believe Pizer (AKA Leather Apron, though I recognize some question this), was arrested on Mulberry street, which I think places him midway between where I located Kaminsky and Kosminsky.
                  No, that's wrong, sorry. I had Kosminsky too far south, and in Pizer's location (where he was arrested; but apparently he may have slummed around and moved here when suspicion was directed towards him for being "Leather Apron"). I've put Albert Bachert on as well as I've heard some list him as a suspect, and noted that A-Z indicate David Cohen's residence, so I've tagged that too.

                  Oh, just to be clear, I've tried to put the first letter in the location of the suspects and the Graffiti (now included, joined to Eddowes by the black line), while the C5 victim's locations are marked by the red squares near their names). And please, if you notice any errors on my part, let me know. And if you know of any other locations, please add that information (I'm using white for suspect's, yellow for crime related locations (victims and the Graffiti, but if you want to add "knife found", etc, please do). Other "locations of interest", such as pubs, etc, probably should have a different colour (one that stands out well would be best).

                  - Jeff

                  Click image for larger version

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                  • #39
                    Hi Jeff!

                    If I remember correctly Rob Clack had an idea where the attack on Millwood occured. I think he did mention it on Casebook or JTRForums over two years ago. Of course I may be wrong but you could ask him.

                    Karsten.

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                    • #40
                      I've finally located Hutchison, well, I should say the Peabody House/Victoria House. It was on the corner of Commercial and Folgate St, and interestingly, that's not far from Chapman's location (which fits with my speculation that because that murder occurred after the sun had risen, JtR probably lived close).

                      So, I've put together a map without a profile overlay, marking the locations of murders that are in areas the map shows (Fracis Cole and the Pinchin Str. Torso are a bit south). I've also put markers on the map for as many suspects as I have locations (apart from the London Hospital, as it's fairly visible already). I do apologise that the map is a bit messy as the original that I downloaded ages ago had marked murder locations, and I believe got some of the slight wrong. I'm pretty sure both Tabram and Smith were next to Wentworth Street, and they had them too far south, next to Whitechapel road. Also, Nichols was marked at the very end of Buck's Row, and I think she was up the street a bit more, just where the residences began. Finally, my understanding of Chapman's location was that it was the next block east of where they had it located. I've put black lines through the locations I believed were in error, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

                      Suspect markers can be a bit hard to find (sorry), but the key is at the bottom. I've put an x beside suspects the police suspected and ruled out (i.e. Pizer, and Ludwig). I've not placed Barnett on the map, as his location is redundant with Kelly's murder location and Donston would be with the Hospital.

                      So, using the C5 only, and the analysis that I've tested (see post 21), here are the zones for our list of suspects:

                      Suspect Zone
                      Donston/Hospital (2)
                      Levy (4)
                      Druitt / Ludwig (7) Druitt is suggested to have had access to Dr. Thyne's surgery; Ludwig was ruled out as he was in custody on the double event

                      Barnet (9)
                      Bachert (9)
                      David Cohen (16)

                      Tumblety (16) There is some question as to whether he was here in 1888 or not
                      Hutchinson (19)
                      Kowolsky (32)

                      Pizer (32)
                      Kosminski (36)
                      Kaminsky (41)

                      So, provided JtR wasn't a commuter who travelled into the area from well outside it, then if any suspect is in zone 20 or less were JtR then the analysis is considered to have done "better than chance", but while technically zone 18 and 19 are better than chance, I would consider it a success if JtR were located in zone 7 or less (3 and under I'm really pleased), and I would not be too dissappointed with zone s 8-13 or so, but by zone18 I'm feeling like I'm only getting away with a "technicality". The analyis would be considered a failure if JtR were actually in zone 21 or above.

                      - JeffClick image for larger version  Name:	Jtr_Victimes_Suspects_Blank.jpg Views:	0 Size:	178.4 KB ID:	701756
                      Last edited by JeffHamm; 02-14-2019, 08:52 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by S.Brett View Post
                        Hi Jeff!

                        If I remember correctly Rob Clack had an idea where the attack on Millwood occured. I think he did mention it on Casebook or JTRForums over two years ago. Of course I may be wrong but you could ask him.

                        Karsten.
                        Oh, many thanks for the tip on that.

                        - Jeff

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post
                          Of course, if Millwood and/or Tabram were part of JtR's series, then the pattern of locations changes quite a bit, with much higher concentrations in the N-S corridor in the west, and the analysis is sensitive to that change in pattern. Which brings in the third major assumption, what offenses are linked?
                          The safest bet would be to stick to the (mostly) indisputable Ripper murders - Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes. Even Kelly is somewhat controversial - albeit not to me - but arguably Miller's Court was close enough to Hanbury Street for it not to matter much whether we include her or not.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                          • #43
                            BTW.- List of suspects, suggestion: Robert Sagar/ City Police who said "We had good reason to suspect a certain man who worked in Butchers Row" (on Aldgate High Street).

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                            • #44
                              Ok, ran out of time to edit the above again. I'm going to put 2 zone numbers. The first is the zone when we only consider the C5. However, as this thread is about Millwood, I figured I would repeat the analysis with Millwood and Tabram as part of the series as well. When they are included, the pattern of locations changes from looking more or less like locations on the edge of a circle, and more like locations either side of Commerical Road, with Nichols being the odd one out. So, the zone numbers x / y are for C5 only, and "Millwood, Tabram, + C5" (basically, I think if you include Millwood, Tabram has to be included as the next in the series, etc; see post #19 in this thread for the geoprofile output map if you are interested).

                              Suspect Zone
                              Donston/Hospital ... ( 2 / 17)
                              Levy .................... ( 4 / 2)
                              Druitt / Ludwig ..... ( 7 / 14) Druitt is suggested to have had access to Dr. Thyne's surgery; Ludwig was ruled out as he was in custody on the double event

                              Barnet ................. ( 9 / 4)
                              Bachert ............... ( 9 / 13)
                              David Cohen ........ (16 / 17)

                              Tumblety ............. (16 / 33) There is some question as to whether he was here in 1888 or not
                              Hutchinson .......... (19 / 8)
                              Kowolsky ............. (32 / 20)

                              Pizer ................... (32 / 40)
                              Kosminski ............ (36 / 47)
                              Kaminsky ............ (41 / 53)

                              There you have it, for what it's worth.

                              - Jeff
                              Last edited by JeffHamm; 02-14-2019, 09:41 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                                The safest bet would be to stick to the (mostly) indisputable Ripper murders - Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes. Even Kelly is somewhat controversial - albeit not to me - but arguably Miller's Court was close enough to Hanbury Street for it not to matter much whether we include her or not.
                                Once we're down to 3 locations, there's not really enough information to work with. And two locations close to each other does influence parts of the analysis (aspects related to minimizing total distance traveled, or the square of the distances traveled, etc, which are values used in the calculations. Five locations is probably the bare minimum. Also, the linkage is really important (what crimes you enter) and while some locations can be dropped or added without changing things, other locations can have a larger influence (Stride, for example, if she's part of the series, her location tells us a lot about JtR's spatial pattern, and if she's not, then the pattern becomes very different - much more crescent shaped. You can see the change on page 2, I think I did some where Stride is dropped, and the pattern changes. In otherwords, particularly when there are few locations, if you omit one that can throw off the analysis because, well, the data is wrong. Problem is, we don't know what's right, hence I'm trying various combinations.

                                Adding Tabram and Millwood, mostly as a speculative whim as there are a fair number who think Tabram should be considered, and as Millwood's attack sounds almost like a botched version of Tabram's attack (admitting we know precious little about Millwood), I got to pondering her inclusion (particularly as her locatoin on White's Row is just one street south of Kelly's location). Once you add them, you start to see what looks like someone traveling along Commercial road.

                                - Jeff

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