Alice McKenzie - some details not seen before

[Debra A]

It seems that McCormack's account may have contained a kernel of truth. This is from The Guardian (Boston, Lincs) of 17th August, 1889.

Many of the facts check out:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....t=Peterborough

Thanks, Gary. Great research there.

[John Wheat]

You believe Bury was the Ripper, so all bets are off.

That doesn't answer my questions though does it Harry D. I suppose you're going to say he was incarcerated after McKenzie's murder as well for another unrelated crime or something.

[Harry D]

McKenzie wasn't mutilated to the extent of some of the other C5 and then there's the question why the cessation after McKenzie

You believe Bury was the Ripper, so all bets are off.

[John Wheat]

Of course not.

McKenzie wasn't mutilated to the extent of some of the other C5 and then there's the question why the cessation after McKenzie

[Harry D]

None of that washes with me Harry D

Of course not.

[John Wheat]

Incarceration? Illness? Maybe he wasn't even in the country.



Because she was killed outdoors and he might have narrowly escaped detection?

None of that washes with me Harry D

[Harry D]

The main problems with McKenzie is why the huge gap of time

Incarceration? Illness? Maybe he wasn't even in the country.

and even if a killer such as Jack was to take such a huge gap if time wouldn't we see a MJK amount of mutilation?

Because she was killed outdoors and he might have narrowly escaped detection?

[John Wheat]

I include Mackenzie. Final straw for me is she was found with the skirt hiked up. Like the others.

The main problems with McKenzie is why the huge gap of time and even if a killer such as Jack was to take such a huge gap if time wouldn't we see a MJK amount of mutilation?

[John G]

I absolutely agree with you, Gareth. There are major differences between Pinchin Street and the crimes traditionally attributed to JtR: I hope to submit a post in the near future, comparing the "JtR murders", with the Torso crimes.

In any event, there is no doubt this was a period of highly unusual murders, all of which shared some of the characteristics with the C5, which themselves demonstrated significant differences, presenting a real problem for anyone attempting to connect the crimes.

[Sam Flynn]

They both happened in London, and not the opposite ends of the city either. And you can't blithely gloss over Pinchin Street.

It's not me who's "blithely glossing" over anything, Harry. There are major - major - differences between the two series.

Anyway, you know we've been through all this before.

Quite, so let's not discuss it here. The thread is about McKenzie, so quite why the torso series was mentioned is a bit baffling, given that - along with every single victim of Jack the Ripper - none of her limbs was cut off.

[Harry D]

Again, that apparent coincidence is easy to dismiss, given that one series unwound itself in leisurely fashion over a period of more than ten years, and the other popped up in the middle during a frenzied blitz of a few weeks.

One of the Torso murders overlapped during that short blitz, and two more near the same time as the next "Ripper-esque" murder. Two series happening in the same city, at the same time, where women were mutilated/butchered and uteri were removed. This cannot be dismissed as readily as you think.

Apart from these - significant - differences in cadence, the torso series and JTR don't even overlap geographically

They both happened in London, and not the opposite ends of the city either. And you can't blithely gloss over Pinchin Street. Now we have one series spilling over into the other's territory.

Anyway, you know we've been through all this before. The killer might have had a bolthole further west, where he carried out the Torso series, whereas Whitechapel was closer to home.

[Sam Flynn]

And yet they overlap during the Autumn of Terror, and either side of the next Ripper-esque murder after a lull in both series.

Again, that apparent coincidence is easy to dismiss, given that one series unwound itself in leisurely fashion over a period of more than ten years, and the other popped up in the middle during a frenzied blitz of a few weeks. Apart from these - significant - differences in cadence, the torso series and JTR don't even overlap geographically; the one exception being Pinchin Street. However, this was a part of the East End where the least "ripperesque" of the C5 murders happened - i.e. that of Stride, who was quite possibly not a Ripper victim at all.

[Abby Normal]

I include Mackenzie. Final straw for me is she was found with the skirt hiked up. Like the others.

[Harry D]

Given that the torso murders spanned more than a decade, they were bound to overlap with something.

And yet they overlap during the Autumn of Terror, and either side of the next Ripper-esque murder after a lull in both series.

Nope, too much of a coincidence.

[Sam Flynn]

I discount Coles but include McKenzie.

The overlap between the Ripper & Torso murders is key for me.

Given that the torso murders spanned more than a decade, they were bound to overlap with something.