Let there be light!

[David Orsam]

Nope that won't work either. As I said before it could've been another day she was drunk and another morning Maxwell talked to her. There is no corroboration that she spoke to Kelly on the day she was murdered. Someone else has to have seen it or at least see MJK.

It "won't work" only if you ignore what I posted about the likelihood of Mrs Maxwell confusing the day. Which is exactly what you have done.

It is of course true that no-one else came forward to say that they saw Mrs Maxwell speak to Kelly on the Friday morning but that does not change the fact that it was the sworn evidence of Mrs Maxwell at the inquest that she did speak to her and that this evidence is not contradicted by any other evidence presented at the inquest (or any other evidence that we know of).

[David Orsam]

That's not true either. Digestive times are still used today. Body temperature is still used except they mainly use an internal temp like the liver. Rigor mortis maybe not so much but even the medicals back then said environmental factors may have played a factor in the rigor mortis timing so they knew more about it then you think.

I'm not saying that medical men knew nothing about rigor mortis, I'm saying it could not help them accurately assist the time of death. Something which you implicitly accept by saying that rigor mortis is "not so much" used today. There's no need for me to argue with you about body temperature because unless you are saying that the temperature of the liver was taken by Dr Phillips or Bond then you've conceded that one too. I have no doubt that digestion is considered today but the question is whether that can produce an accurate estimate of the time of death. The problem is that they still can't do it today due to there not being a standard rate of digestion and they certainly couldn't do it in 1888, especially in circumstances where there was no evidence as to when MJK had eaten her last meal.

[David Orsam]

people have described how clean she was, she never wore a bonnet, she had long read hair. This is someone you would notice, especially if she was gacking in the street, so the only person who saw her was a woman going to get her husbands breakfast. Not likely.

With respect, I don't think your opinion that "This is someone you would notice" has any validity whatsoever. As if Mary's movements were monitored by the local population on a daily basis. It's absurd! And, in any case, you seem to think that everyone living in Dorset Street was going to come forward and assist the police. I don't think so somehow.

[David Orsam]

Actually the testimony of others proves my point. Mrs. Harvey, Maxwell, Pritchett, Barnett, McCarthy, Hutchinson, Bowyer. They all knew her by site and all knew her name. So to say she didn't know alot of people is probably inaccurate.

Well I didn't say that "she didn't know a lot of people". You were the one who said that she knew "a lot of people".

To support that assertion you produce a list of 7 people, two of whom are her landlord and his assistant and one of whom was her lover. You've missed out Mrs Cox incidentally.

No-one is saying she didn't have friends but to produce a list of 10 people, when we are discussing the population living around Dorset Street, is risible.

[Columbo]

Have you forgotten this Michael?

"When asked by the police how she could fix the time of the morning, Mrs. Maxwell replied, "Because I went to the milkshop for some milk, and I had not before been there for a long time, and that she was wearing a woollen cross-over that I had not seen her wear for a considerable time". On inquiries being made at the milkshop indicated by the woman her statement was found to be correct, and the cross-over was also found in Kelly's room."
http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881112.html

Thanks Wickerman, this is very interesting. Orsam should like it.

Columbo