MJK2 & MJK3 Left/right & fake debate

[Pierre]

Pierre

if you want to carry on discussing something which is only vaguely linked to the subject of this thread, "was the photo MJK3 a fake, based on the arm position", why not do it on one of your own threads. You can easy point your posts to the image on this thread.

my point is that you may not intend to but you in effect hijack threads, where others have worked hard, to try and prove your arguments.

In my opinion, and its only mine, its not polite.

Steve,

The subject of this thread is the fake debate. And as Richard writes:

"Also, if MJK3 is a fake as some suggest, then it is a very accurate fake because the hand position agrees almost exactly with the hand's position in MJK2. See what you think."

This is what I have been saying all the time. And since Richard has made an excellent illustration of the photograph, it is now possible to strengthen the hypothesis of this photograph being authentic.

So naturally you do not want me to discuss this and the fake debate, since you like to use the idea of MJK3 being a fake for arguing against my theory, as you have been doing previously. And you canīt stand me being right about anything.

Also, you have been using Richards illustration to point out one of your own ideas: that there was very little movement between the photos. So I could tell you to not hijack this thread as well.

But, the point is that Richard would be capable of constructing an illustration from the two photos to compare the two in their entirety.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

Pierre

if you want to carry on discussing something which is only vaguely linked to the subject of this thread, "was the photo MJK3 a fake, based on the arm position", why not do it on one of your own threads. You can easy point your posts to the image on this thread.

my point is that you may not intend to but you in effect hijack threads, where others have worked hard, to try and prove your arguments.

In my opinion, and its only mine, its not polite.

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

How do you think the killer felt when he was mutilating Kelly?

Do you think he was very cool and calculating?

Regards, Pierre

I have no idea, not being a serial killer that is.


Do YOU?

If you feel you know how he felt and his mental state, can I ask how you come to this conclusion?

Generalizations about serial killers will not do.
We are talking about a specific individual and even if you do know who he was, you cannot know his mental state at the precise moment of the killings




You have previously suggested he cut chevrons in Mitre Square.

And while I do not accept the cuts are chevrons, they at least are complete. That in a much more risky location, with a limited window for the killing and mutilations.

[Pierre]

Purkis
point taken, that’s very true, however just for the point of argument why would the killer not complete the chevron, by joining the 2 cuts, he had plenty of time.

Steve

Hi Steve,

How do you think the killer felt when he was mutilating Kelly?

Do you think he was very cool and calculating?

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

Maybe Jack found it easier to create a chevron with two slashes. I imagine it would be difficult to do with just one break of the skin.
Not that I think it is a chevron, just hypothesising.

Purkis
point taken, that’s very true, however just for the point of argument why would the killer not complete the chevron, by joining the 2 cuts, he had plenty of time.

Steve

[Purkis]

i see your thinking, looks too small to me,but could be
What ever the mark is its not cut as a chevron, its two distinct breaks to the skin.

Steve

Maybe Jack found it easier to create a chevron with two slashes. I imagine it would be difficult to do with just one break of the skin.
Not that I think it is a chevron, just hypothesising.

[SuspectZero]

i see your thinking, looks too small to me,but could be
What ever the mark is its not cut as a chevron, its two distinct breaks to the skin.

Steve

I agree.

[Elamarna]

Actually, Pierre, I think that cut looks more like a bite mark to me.

i see your thinking, looks too small to me,but could be
What ever the mark is its not cut as a chevron, its two distinct breaks to the skin.

Steve

[SuspectZero]

Lots of threads and debate on this (I've started a few myself) but I wanted to try to answer the questions raised in the title of this thread and provide a visual aid in the interpretation of these two photos.

I've done something like this before but this time, I have constructed an accurate left hand/arm and positioned it exactly over MJK2. It's a good fit and the aged overlay shows it is very accurate to MJK's actual left hand/arm.

From this position I have then animated the image so that we swing the camera around into the MJK3 position to see if the hand still fits what is depicted in MJK2 and that some feel is a right hand rather than left AND that others feel that MJK3 is an outright fake (hoax) image.

Now, I don't think I can prove that MJK3 is is or is not a fake BUT there is no denying that the hand position (setup and exactly correct according to MJK2) fits VERY closely over the image of MJK3. The slight inaccuracies can be put down to differences in camera focal length, original image size being different from my 3D image setup, light/shadow difference and other distortions that have been introduced that I can't account for. BUT, those slight inaccuracies aside, the 3D overlays DO fit and, in my opinion, show that the hand in MJK3 is the LEFT hand. Also, if MJK3 is a fake as some suggest, then it is a very accurate fake because the hand position agrees almost exactly with the hand's position in MJK2.

See what you think.



CLICK HERE FOR A LARGE IMAGE

Animation 1



Animation 2

Nicely done, Richard.

[SuspectZero]

Richardh,

It is a masterpiece.

And I think your work is honouring the memory of Mary Kelly. It implies that MJK3 is authentic, and that the finger some thought was a thumb was not.

For me, it also implies that what we see to the right behind her bed in MJK3 is the real door to the yard.

I can also see the cut in the shape of a chevron on her hand.

Thank you, Richardh.

Kind regards, Pierre

Actually, Pierre, I think that cut looks more like a bite mark to me.

[Elamarna]

Joking aside, this stuff I produce is laughable compared with what the real 3D artists do. Stuff like the wonderful images by Jaakko Luukanen which really ARE masterpieces. And the photorealistic renders that proper (professional) 3D artists create. For instance, this (below) is a model created with the very same software that I've been using to create all this 3D stuff. Yes, a model, not a photo.


LINK

Imagine what the guy who created that could do if he decided to create Miller's Court, #13 or Dutfield's Yard? That type of quailty takes your breath away.

I know, it blows your mind away, i would love to see a double event night starting at Berner street, up to Mitre Square, GSG and head back towards Whitechapel high road.
all with the correct lighting, and police officer beats it would open so much up I am sure.

Steve

[richardh]

Joking aside, this stuff I produce is laughable compared with what the real 3D artists do. Stuff like the wonderful images by Jaakko Luukanen which really ARE masterpieces. And the photorealistic renders that proper (professional) 3D artists create. For instance, this (below) is a model created with the very same software that I've been using to create all this 3D stuff. Yes, a model, not a photo.


LINK

Imagine what the guy who created that could do if he decided to create Miller's Court, #13 or Dutfield's Yard? That type of quailty takes your breath away.

I will concede that Richard, its about time you took credit for the great work you do.
I was comparing it too some of your other works which I believe are even better.


Steve

[Elamarna]

No, no Pierre is correct...


It is a masterpiece.

I will concede that Richard, its about time you took credit for the great work you do.
I was comparing it too some of your other works which I believe are even better.


Steve

[richardh]

No, no Pierre is correct...


It is a masterpiece.

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;368547]

Richardh,

"It is a masterpiece."

For once we agree but I think masterpiece is over the top, but it is very good

No, it is a masterpiece since it implies MJK3 is real.

Rather please let Richard's work stand for itself,

Naturally, I do, donīt accuse me for doing something I havenīt done.

and what it shows, that is the hand is a left hand, not a right hand.

Canīt you read, Steve? I have NOT said that it is a right hand. WHERE did you get this from? Why do you make up lies about me?