MJK2 & MJK3 Left/right & fake debate

[richardh]

There would be enough floor space to take MJK2 (the main photo) with a tripod and I would suggest that the act of moving the bed and table away from the partition was so that the photographer could get that reverse view (MJK3) easier than struggling with the removal of the tripod and the balancing act of standing behind/above the 'propped-up' viewfinder.

So IF they moved the bed/table for that reason, they may as well move the bed/table a fair bit from it's original location and keep the camera on the tripod.

[David Orsam]

Simon Wood's plan shows what I am talking about, how the bed was moved away from the wall to allow the photographer in to take that smaller photo:



See "Room 13 Miller's Court" by Simon D. Wood here on Casebook.

As I understand Simon Wood's 2005 dissertation, Chris, he was saying that the position of the bed in that diagram related to the larger photograph, MJK1. Thus, he said: 'I have tilted the bed 10° away from the partition wall in keeping with its apparent position in MJK 1.'

Probably worth also noting that Simon Wood appears to have disowned his 2005 dissertation, telling Richardh on 24 August 2014 that he was going to send an email to Stephen Ryder 'asking him to remove my 2005 dissertation on Millers Court.' He said on the same day:

'MJK3 was not taken in Room 13 Millers Court on 9th November 1888.'

He claims that MJK3 was a 'prank'.

As far as I am aware he has not substantiated this assertion. In October 2015 he said he would include discussion of the matter in a second edition of his book but whether this will happen I don't know. Richard's fine work seems to suggest that Simon is wrong.

[Geddy2112]

Splaying the tripod legs out would also lower the camera height, wouldn't it?

Yeah or they could have put it on chocks etc. Or did I read the MJK2 picture was taken from outside through the window or is that bull?

[Joshua Rogan]

Splaying the tripod legs out would also lower the camera height, wouldn't it?

[Geddy2112]

Was the floor level?

[Phil Carter]

Hello Richard,

Whilst I appreciate your efforts and set up.. I have to say that in Your set up it MAY appear as an illusion.

It certainly doesnt in the two photos... but whatever.. it still doesnt equate With the fact that the tripod is on fixed length legs.

There is only one way of achieving a lower height.. taking the camera off the tripod..even three inches.. and hand holding it... or getting something to put it on.

By all known inventory.. there was nothing in that room the required height on which to place the camera onto.

So... seems to me that the fixed length tripod legs are a problem.


I dont see an illusion at all. Sorry.

With respect


Phil

[richardh]

I've taken a look at my 3D setup (resultant image below) and I note that the camera height between the two renders (MJK2 & MJK3) hardly changes. I can't give an exact measurement but the difference in height of the camera at the start and end of the animation is no more than 3 inches.

Strangely, the animation does look like the camera drops significantly as it pans from mjk2 to mjk3 but my setup shows this to be an illusion.

As far as I know.. and as far as I know has been checked..The tripod holding this type of camera did NOT have retractable legs. Therefore any photo taken on the other side of the bed must have been taken without a tripod somehow. .because of height of photo shown.

Even the sketch shows a tripod with fixed length legs.



Phil

[richardh]

Brilliant, Thanks Steve.

Richard

the link below allowed my to download as a zip I think issues 62-80


http://ripperologist.us10.list-manag...5dd14a5971hope that helps

Steve

[Phil Carter]

As far as I know.. and as far as I know has been checked..The tripod holding this type of camera did NOT have retractable legs. Therefore any photo taken on the other side of the bed must have been taken without a tripod somehow. .because of height of photo shown.

Even the sketch shows a tripod with fixed length legs.



Phil

[Elamarna]

I'd like to read that but I don't have issue 80. I started getting Ripperologist from about issue 110 via email (pdf).
Is it possible to get back issues?

Richard

the link below allowed my to download as a zip I think issues 62-80


http://ripperologist.us10.list-manag...5dd14a5971hope that helps

Steve

[Elamarna]

I'd like to read that but I don't have issue 80. I started getting Ripperologist from about issue 110 via email (pdf).
Is it possible to get back issues?

Richard
There is a link. I downloaded all the available issues in November, but have unfortunately lost the link.Someone else on the boards will surely have the link, or email Ripperologist direct.

Steve

[richardh]

I'd like to read that but I don't have issue 80. I started getting Ripperologist from about issue 110 via email (pdf).
Is it possible to get back issues?

Chris

Many thanks for that, it fits in with the view I already held.
Can i also point out the article in Ripperologist issue 80 by William Michael on photographing Miller's Court which i actually reread yesterday.
It gives a great deal of important background data on the issue.



Steve

[Elamarna]

Chris

Many thanks for that, it fits in with the view I already held.
Can i also point out the article in Ripperologist issue 80 by William Michael on photographing Miller's Court which i actually reread yesterday.
It gives a great deal of important background data on the issue.



Steve

[ChrisGeorge]

Simon Wood's plan shows what I am talking about, how the bed was moved away from the wall to allow the photographer in to take that smaller photo:



See "Room 13 Miller's Court" by Simon D. Wood here on Casebook.

Best regards

Chris

[ChrisGeorge]

Dear Richard

does your work on this give you any indication on how far you think bed and table were moved: a few inches ? a few foot? more? it would be interesting to know if it does suggest any sort of distance.

yours

steve

Hello everyone

Good work, Richard. An interesting and worthwhile animation and discussion. Thanks.

Of course, the bed had to be moved away from the wall and the dry sink with the bolster on it in order for the photographer to take the smaller photograph looking across the bed and victim toward the door to the room. See first illustration below. The second newspaper illustration shows the photographer actually in the room, but from door side of the bed, taking the famous bigger and gorier photograph of MJK. In order to take the smaller photo of the room and the slaughtered woman, the bed would have had to have been moved away from the wall at least as far as to be able to fit the photographer's tripod and person between the bed and the wall and dry sink. I hope this explanation helps.

Best regards

Chris