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  • Panoramic Of Miller's Court..

    Hi
    This photo:
    Has it been verified or at least decided upon as being Miller's Court?



    Could someone give me an idea of the focal length & DOF of this pic?

    The bloke bending down right in the foreground - is he in Pateroster Row?

    any other details that might be useful about this photo?

    thanks
    Richard
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  • #2
    Purely guess work, but he is stopped down, maybe f16 or 22 as he has good depth.

    If we were shooting 35mm I'd guess at about 35mm we have a touch, I think, of wide angle to it.

    Those are in 35mm terms.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

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    • #3
      The reason I ask is because I was contemplating a project which most probably will fail but I had the idea last year and which I thought I'd try now since I have some models from the Goad's plan to work with.

      What i wanted to try is this:

      The models I have created are based directly on the Goad's plans. The panoramic photo (above) shows the actual area that the Goad Plan covers. I thought it would be a good experiment to attempt to project my models onto the panoramic photo using the Goad as a guild.
      I made a start today and this is what i have so far.


      http://autumnofterror.com/13PLANS/merge1big.png (click for a big image)

      The resultant merge (image 4) is not at all 'bang-on' accurate because I have no idea of the original photograph's size, camera settings etc. This is something I'll have to work on and I may well fail!

      BUT, if it were possible to get an accurate projection it might help us to pinpoint details in the photograph using the models (and vice versa). For instance, to me #13's sloping roof in the photo is longer than my model (model based directly off Goad). Is it the photo, Goad's scale or the model? A highly accurate merge of these things would surely help?

      Is this an impossible ask?
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      • #4
        For me it's an impossible task.

        For you perhaps not.

        But first up are we certain it's millers court?
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GUT View Post
          But first up are we certain it's millers court?
          This study might finally answer that long asked question GUT.

          On the Goad plan I have marked out little Pateroster row, the three areas on goad marked as 'rest', 'draper' & 'printer', three 3 story dwellings at the end of Pateroster, Miller's Court & Dorset St. and so far those landmarks sit pretty much where they should on the projected photograph (see image above).
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          • #6
            Done a bit more planning and things are fitting. Although the exact camera (where photo was taken) position/location/scale has not been sussed yet it is close enough to confirm some landmarks IMO. I'll post the images below and let you have a good look. Like I said, things are not exact and the perspective is off - but not so far off as to see that this photo, the goad plan & my models are very close to being in agreement.





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            • #7
              Done a bit more work. Had to match the Goad and photo by eye as it was impossible to work out focal lengths, sensors etc.

              Sussed out why ~13 looked too deep - was simply down to the sloping roof being too shallow on my part.

              ALL the models you see in this image are placed exactly as per Goad plan. Then looking through the camera (positioned to the location of the demolition photo) we can see that every model I've plotted is in the correct place give or take 10% margin of error.

              I've superimposed the one image onto the demolition photo:





              Think it looks promising.
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              • #8
                Great work, and good to have that confirmation too.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is starting to look promising Richard. must admit i was sceptical to start with. keep going

                  steve

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I know this is a little off topic for this thread, but here in the left side of this pic.



                    We see beams across openings in the ground, looks to me like cellars in these premises.
                    All the sketches of the internal of Kelly's room show her floor was wooden, which suggests to me there was a cellar (basement) under the house, yet "BAST." (Basement) is not indicated in the Goad Plan for the houses facing Dorset St. nor those in the picture facing Brushfield St.
                    Which makes me wonder if those beams we see in the picture are at ground level?

                    The old Victorian terrace I was raised in had two large rooms in the cellar, a fireplace in each room and the front room had a huge granite sink with plumbing.
                    Regards, Jon S.

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                    • #11
                      Bit more work done on positioning of the camera and placement of models. I have set it up thus:
                      Goad Plan is orientated to match the exact google maps position.
                      The models are based on Goad
                      The demolition photo is matched to the models and Goad and the camera is positioned at the original photographer's position (more or less!)
                      The sun is set to the exact lat/long/elevation (position) gleaned from Google maps for the area (lat = 51.519 - long = -0.075)
                      Picked an arbitrary date of 30th June 1928 @ 15:40 to get the shadows to match those in the photo.
                      It's pretty hard to build the area in 3D given that most of the buildings are demolished so I doubt I'll be able to do much more apart from plotting a few more areas.



                      This .gif below shows how narrow Miller's Court was.




                      Do you think this is worth working on? Do you think there is anything to be gained from trying to map this with more accuracy?
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                      JtR3D.com JtR 3D Blog
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                      HHAP

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                      • #12
                        Here is another .gif of the reconstruction so far:

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                        • #13
                          Awesome

                          Every time I despair about how little I know, how frustrating the boards can be from time to time, how confusing all of the information can be:

                          I look at your work Richard, & I am revived!!
                          From Voltaire writing in Diderot's Encyclopédie:
                          "One demands of modern historians more details, better ascertained facts, precise dates, , more attention to customs, laws, commerce, agriculture, population."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by richardh View Post
                            Here is another .gif of the reconstruction so far:

                            Social bias has put the door between the shop ("shed") and Mary´s room on the ground floor to the left but the door on the first floor in it´s right position in the middle of the wall. Why is it impossible to follow Goad´s map instead of gut feeling and put the door in it´s right position according to Goad´s = in the middle of the brick wall?

                            Should not this work of art be correct? Now it is wrong. And will probably stay that way.

                            Regards Pierre

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rosemary View Post
                              Every time I despair about how little I know, how frustrating the boards can be from time to time, how confusing all of the information can be:

                              I look at your work Richard, & I am revived!!
                              He has certainly produced some great stuff.
                              G U T

                              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

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