MJK1 and MJK3

[Debra A]

Hi Brenda.
Actually, I thought it was the larger body photo which showed her right femur, just by the hip there is a dark line barely visible.



Didn't Nick point this out as part of his evidence for the use of a hatchet?
The femur appears to be broken right at that dark line.
I think it's a trick of the light, but regardless, I thought this was pointed out by Nick.

Here's a 2003 casebook discussion thread about Nick Warren's article in Ripperana started by Stephen Ryder:

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4921/7984.html

[Tom_Wescott]

Say what you will about Amanda (and many of you have), but that woman can sure hold her composure while dodging some pretty big bullets.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

There has to be other pictures of this crime scene, I would think. Unless of course, the Inspector is telling fibs. But, why would he?

jerryd

Well, Inspector Moore should have known what was known by police on the day of the murder. That the door was only locked from the outside, that a latch opened the door from the inside.
So why would he offer such an incorrect story?

Also, the larger of the two windows was not broken, it was the smaller one, and no-one (McCarthy, Barnett, Bowyer) appeared to mention that either window slid open.
Moore is also credited with suggesting that Mylett, Jackson, MacKenzie, Pinchin St. & Coles were also by the same hand?
Altogether the article is at the very least untrustworthy.

[GUT]

Hello GUT,

Am intruiged. Could you be kind enough to explain or perhaps answer a few questions I have? Thank you.

G'day Phil

I'll try please understand I don't claim to be an expert however once made a buck with a Camera and taught photography so have studied a bit of photographic history, so no guarantees and and happy with anyone has more accurate information.

I presume we are talking about the old plate camera's, rather than the new fangled device that Mr Eastman released in, from memory, June 1888.

From memory the camera was affixed to a tripod of sorts. Am I correct in saying that the legs of the tripod were of a fixed height or length? i.e. non-retractable?

There were generally two types of tripods in use, one a fixed tripod with no height adjustment, the other was a bit like wooden crutch if that helps. Basically each leg had two pieces of timber with a third [with a slot cut in it] between them, the three were sandwiched together with wing nut(s) holding the three pieces together, by loosening the nuts you could slide the middle piece up and down to adjust the length. Total height adjustment was probably only about 1 foot (30cm)

Also- approximately what was the weight of the camera when detached? I would imagine it to be quite heavy?

How longs a piece of string, it really depended on construction material, plate size and lens, but yes heavy as ... I have never actually weighed one but have handled quite a few and would guess about 10-15 kg or say 20-35 lbs.

Were camera hand held photographs a normal occurrance?

Cameras that could be hand held were available, but where very much a rarity. This really only started to change with the introduction of film [as we knew it before digital, and some of us still use it]. Mr Eastman's Kodak company only released the first "Mass Market" camera as I said in '88. That came pre-loaded with, from memory about 100 shots and then the whole thing had to be sent back to the factory for processing. It was only in 1900 that "The Brownie (or box Brownie)" was released. Realistically photography only became available to the working man with WW I.

Do you happen to know if it were common for a photographer to carry around with him oh- say 6 or 7 glass plates?

Yes they would carry a number of plates and had boxes to carry them in. There were two types of plates, wet and dry. Dry only improved to the extent that it could be considered a genuine alternate to wet, in terms of quality in the 1870's. One real disadvantage of wet plate was that it needed to be processed pretty much on the spot, where as dry you could take the exposed plates with you and develop them at a later time.

I might mention here that prints were, almost without exception, made be contact print that is the plate would be placed directly on the paper and then exposed, so the print was the same size as the plate probably 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 or 6 1/2 x 4 1/4 [I think they are the right measurements but if I'm out it's close], remember those photos you might have in a shoe box or album they are probably 5x3 or 6x4.

Your answers would be most appreciated. Thank you

best wishes

Phil

I hope that was some help, but yell f you want more and I'll actually pull some books out.

[jerryd]

Below is a selected piece from R. Harding Davis' interview with Inspector Henry Moore.

A HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR "JACK THE RIPPER."

"This was about the worst of the murders," said the inspector when they reached Dorset-street. "He cut the skeleton so clean of flesh that when I got here I could hardly tell whether it was a man or a woman. He hung the different parts of the body on nails and over the backs of chairs. It must have taken him an hour and a half in all. And when he was ready to go he found the door was jammed and had to make his escape through the larger of those two windows." Imagine how this man felt when he tried the door and found it was locked; that was before he thought of the window - believing that he was locked in with that bleeding skeleton and the strips of flesh that he had hung so fantastically about the room, that he had trapped himself beside his victim, and had helped to put the rope around his own neck. One would think the shock of the moment would have lasted for years to come, and kept him in hiding. But it apparently did not affect him that way, for he has killed five women since then. We knocked at the door and a woman opened it. She spoke to some-one inside, and then told "Mister Inspector" to come in. It was a bare whitewashed room with a bed in one corner. A man was in the bed, but he sat up and welcomed us good naturedly. The inspector apologized for the intrusion, but the occupant of the bed said it didn't matter, and obligingly traced out with his forefinger the streaks of blood upon the wall at his bedside. When he had done this he turned his face to the wall to go to sleep again, and the inspector ironically wished him pleasant dreams. I rather envied his nerve, and fancied waking up with those dark streaks a few inches from one's face.

There has to be other pictures of this crime scene, I would think. Unless of course, the Inspector is telling fibs. But, why would he?

jerryd

[Wickerman]

Hi Phil.

The trouble with being an assistant is you live your life in someone else's shadow. Nothing would work without you, but no-one ever mentions you.
In a very class conscious society "The Photographer", includes you!
The assistant does not get top billing, or any billing for that matter

Clark doesn't always get a mention with Phillips, Hibbert likewise is often invisible with Bond. Johnson might not have got a mention at all if he hadn't been sent on ahead of Blackwell.
Such is life.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wickerman,

Stap me vitals, it's tough to slip anything past you.

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,
I only had time to half-heartedly search through Nick Warren, surgeon, on Google before going to dinner, and I wasn't able to find anything he had stated regarding MJK other than that snippet of dissertation I posted. I will have a further look, but I am wondering if he was actually on the boards posting at one time? And if so, if some of that got lost in the crash....

But until I can delve into Google further, I DID come up with this wonderful (and timely!) article about how we Ripperologists are all ready to strangle each other! Solid gold....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/at...r-1598714.html

Hi Brenda.
I don't recall Nick being on the Boards, if he was it was in the late 90's. I didn't know everybody on the Boards back then.
Thats a few crashes ago now
Unless you have the Archived disks from Casebook Ver. 1?

I might have read his Ripperana article, its too long back now to remember, but I'm sure it was in that article where he offered his opinion on the hatchet.

[Simon Wood]

Hi jerryd,

Nice one.

Regards,

Simon

[Brenda]

.

p.s. It doesn't make my Nick Warren Googling any easier when Nick Cave and Warren Ellis have an album called "The English Surgeon"

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil.

Just a couple of points.

A 19th century leather bound wood box turned up on some Antiques program on tv. It was photographers equipment, for carrying spare glass plates. I don't recall how many slots were in the box but it was not less than six, but not more than twelve.

Also, don't forget these professionals always had an assistant burdened with carrying god knows what.

Hello Jon,

Thanks for this that partly answers my questions, It also leads to a thought,

Do you recall in the dim and distant past, when talking of the occurrances re the marginalia that somebody made query of the fact that for it (the story) to have happened- it would be likely that quite a few people would had to have known about it (by being there) yet never had we heard a verbal hand me down from anyone, ever?

The long suffering assistant you mention a) isnt mentioned re, Millers Court and b) anyone in that room would have remembered that forever, Among the working class such a story would likely have been passed on from father to son etc. Yet, again- we hear nothing of anything from any such family. Lets face it- thats one heck of a yarn to say nothing about 'being there'.

Phil

[jerryd]

Hi Wickerman,

As I pointed out ten thousand posts ago, MJK3 needed at least two people to pull it off.

Keep up.

Regards,

Simon

Simon,

I've told you a billion times not to exaggerate.

Sláinte!

jerryd

[Brenda]

Hi Brenda.
Actually, I thought it was the larger body photo which showed her right femur, just by the hip there is a dark line barely visible.



Didn't Nick point this out as part of his evidence for the use of a hatchet?
The femur appears to be broken right at that dark line.
I think it's a trick of the light, but regardless, I thought this was pointed out by Nick.

Hi Jon,
I only had time to half-heartedly search through Nick Warren, surgeon, on Google before going to dinner, and I wasn't able to find anything he had stated regarding MJK other than that snippet of dissertation I posted. I will have a further look, but I am wondering if he was actually on the boards posting at one time? And if so, if some of that got lost in the crash....

But until I can delve into Google further, I DID come up with this wonderful (and timely!) article about how we Ripperologists are all ready to strangle each other! Solid gold....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/at...r-1598714.html

[Wickerman]

Like a photographer and his assistant?

Keep up.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wickerman,

As I pointed out ten thousand posts ago, MJK3 needed at least two people to pull it off.

Keep up.

Regards,

Simon