MJK Hair colour

[miss marple]

Mr barnett,
The Mary Kelly of Castle Alley prostitute in the Whitechapel infirmary 1881`suffering syphilis is not the same Mary Kelly as the ripper victim. There were about 40 Mary Kellys around London at the time.

Miss Marple

[markmorey5]

I have assumed for a long time that Mary was a redhead based on the description of "ginger haired," and there is a lot of variation in shade to red hair but I like to think Jane Coram might have gotten it close to accurate in her illustrations. The makers of the movie "From Hell" certainly went with the idea (though quite over the top) when they colored Heather Gramm's hair flaming orange. That brings to mind another film portrayal, Lysette Anthony in the 1988 "Jack the Ripper" miniseries. Her natural hair color I believe was a very light brown and yet to play Mary she colored it black. I've never understood why. (Loved her performance, though.)

I assume any nickname of Mary's using the word "dark" referred to personality or life story rather than hair color or complexion. And as to the difference between her build being described as "stout" and her appearance in the photograph- I hate to be morbid but let's not forget there is a lot of her missing in that picture.

In the crime scene photos you can tell enough from her arms and lack of double chin that Mary Kelly wasn't fat. If she was 'stout' (and I believe only two used that term), she may have had broad hips, broad shoulders or perhaps been busty. But being tall she could have carried that build well, if indeed she was built like that.

The nickname was 'Black Mary' and black seems to be specific to her personality when drunk. When windows got broken and things like that.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Black Mary was Mary Kelly's nickname for when she got drunk and abusive. Clearly she had a reputation! The nickname Ginger implies red or perhaps strawberry blonde hair, and Fair Emma implies pale skin which redheads often have.

Red hair is coarse, so for her hair to be waist-length it was more likely to be strawberry blonde.

she was only 25, it's possible her hair color was still vivid (is this the right English term?). Redhead tends to get blonder or darker as they get older.

[kensei]

I have assumed for a long time that Mary was a redhead based on the description of "ginger haired," and there is a lot of variation in shade to red hair but I like to think Jane Coram might have gotten it close to accurate in her illustrations. The makers of the movie "From Hell" certainly went with the idea (though quite over the top) when they colored Heather Gramm's hair flaming orange. That brings to mind another film portrayal, Lysette Anthony in the 1988 "Jack the Ripper" miniseries. Her natural hair color I believe was a very light brown and yet to play Mary she colored it black. I've never understood why. (Loved her performance, though.)

I assume any nickname of Mary's using the word "dark" referred to personality or life story rather than hair color or complexion. And as to the difference between her build being described as "stout" and her appearance in the photograph- I hate to be morbid but let's not forget there is a lot of her missing in that picture.

[GUT]

Red hair is coarse, so for her hair to be waist-length it was more likely to be strawberry blonde.

My wife has red hair and at one time could sit on it so I don't think that your statement about the length relating to the colour is strictly true.

However I too think she may have been a strawberry blonde, but perhaps a darker shade.

[markmorey5]

Black Mary was Mary Kelly's nickname for when she got drunk and abusive. Clearly she had a reputation! The nickname Ginger implies red or perhaps strawberry blonde hair, and Fair Emma implies pale skin which redheads often have.

Red hair is coarse, so for her hair to be waist-length it was more likely to be strawberry blonde.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Maybe the drapes didn't match the carpet?

I think it's a possibility.

I wanted to know what her hair colour was in November 1888, natural or not. Nothing about it in the official documents I read.

[MrBarnett]

I wouldn't dismiss Lady H so quickly. She was renowned for her luxuriant chestnut hair and her portraits by Romney hung in the National Gallery. Her name was a byword for a particular kind of feminine beauty. If Mary had a similar look, it might explain the reference. Bit like calling an attractive blonde Marilyn today.

A little while ago I raised the intriguing discovery of a Mary Kelly, prostitute on the Whitechapel infirmary census return for 1881. One of the other inmates shown was Emma Davis, a widow. All very random, no doubt, but it set me wondering where MJK might have got the idea for a fictional past (if indeed she did). The MK on the census gave her place of birth as Whitechapel. Emma Davis gave hers as on board a ship from Canada.

It occurred to me that this ED could have been romanticising her past and subsequently assumed the name of her fellow inmate. Alternatively, the MK on the infirmary census might have adopted the more romantic story of ED to impress her mates in Dorset Street.

MrB

[Amanda Sumner]

THE Lady Hamilton?

She died decades before Mary was born.

No chance that this may have been her real name then?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Amanda,

Perhaps fair Emma was a reference to Emma Hamilton.

MrB

[Amanda Sumner]

Hi Gut,

I thought it was 'fair' Emma. In which case fair could either mean attractive or having light coloured hair.

MrB

Sorry, not " blackie" but " black Mary"

I agree, fair could have meant pretty too

Why Emma though?

Seems strange that all these descriptions are at odds with each other.

Someone must have given an accurate description of her.
She could not have been slim and stout, blond/fair/red/ and black!

[MrBarnett]

Hi Gut,

I thought it was 'fair' Emma. In which case fair could either mean attractive or having light coloured hair.

MrB

[Janner]

I though she had a nickname "Blackie" too....someone among her friends must have given a reliable description.

I have also seen the description " stout" but those remains on the bed seemed to show someone very slim...Odd

I think it's possible that 'stout' could apply to someone healthy looking, robust - particularly at a time and place where people suffering some form of illness or malnutrition would be commonplace, perhaps even the norm (?)

[Harry D]

Maybe the drapes didn't match the carpet?

[Amanda Sumner]

I though she had a nickname "Blackie" too....someone among her friends must have given a reliable description.

I have also seen the description " stout" but those remains on the bed seemed to show someone very slim...Odd