How did Mary conduct her "transactions?"

[GUT]

G'Day Jason

But why then say rent arrears, not "money owed"?

[jason_c]

The arrears were rent based only and related to the weekly rate that Mary was charged, it was a cumulative arrears...over a matter of weeks she had been short or unpaid.

And arrears in the case of Mary Kelly ARE relevant, as they match the habits of Mary at her location prior to Millers Court....she was evicted from that location for just that reason.

Was McCarthy more reasonable or nicer....I doubt it. When Mary was evicted before there wasnt a rash of Unfortunates killed in the East End, many landlords were allowing some arrears rather than ejecting them into the dangerous night.

Cheers

Im not sure you can say this for certain. McCarthy doesnt go into much detail on the matter(at least he doesn't in the inquest). He just calls them arrears. At first glance I would say they are more likely to be rent arrears, but they need not be only rent arrears. It could just as easily be part rent arrears part money owed to the shop. McCarthy was making money out of the residents in a couple of different ways. I see no need for him to give a detailed breakdown of the money Kelly owed.

[GUT]

The rent arrears are not a multiple of given weeks and we don't know why. Possibly Kelly paid portions of the arrears when she had spare change, possibly she worked for the arrears, or most likely the arrears included purchases from McCarthys chandlery, such as the tallow candle she purchased from him.

The explanation you give is fair enough as far as her paying "bits and pieces" but if it included purchases why not say "For rent and purchases"? Every reference is to rent arrears.

[GUT]

G'Day Mark

for the obvious reason that the arrears were related to the discovery of the murder.

Or an excuse if the visit was to collect his cut of the nights take.

[markmorey5]

The last thing McCarthy would want is the reputation for being a soft touch for rent arrears. With that reputation every tennant in every property, and he rented more porperties than Millers Court, would have taken advantage of him. I suspect that if McCarthy wanted his money and Kelly couldn't pay, then she would have been in serious trouble as a warning to others.

The rent arrears are not a multiple of given weeks and we don't know why. Possibly Kelly paid portions of the arrears when she had spare change, possibly she worked for the arrears, or most likely the arrears included purchases from McCarthys chandlery, such as the tallow candle she purchased from him.

I would discount the hypothesis of the arrears being an invention after the event. That's not the reputation a slum landlord wants. The rent arrears were disclosed at the coronial inquest, for the obvious reason that the arrears were related to the discovery of the murder.

[GUT]

G'Day Bridewell

The creation of bogus rent arrears could have served to make McCarthy appear a nicer man than he really was; that in turn might have prevented anyone from shining too close a light on his relationship with the women who inhabited Millers Court. The whole thing is entirely speculative but rent arrears of such magnitude were surely most unusual.

I've had similar thoughts, an invention after the event, but if so wouldn't Joe have said something?

[richardnunweek]

Hi Michael.
I guess you can say that Kelly was living on borrowed time.all the time the killer was on the loose, she assumed she would be safe to live rent free, although I suspect on the undertaking, that she would contribute regularly to her back rent.
Kelly's remark to Mrs M, the previous day..''He is a concern isn't he'' I hear he is ripe in this area''..is fueling Mrs M with a compassionate attitude.
Regards Richard.

[Michael W Richards]

The arrears were rent based only and related to the weekly rate that Mary was charged, it was a cumulative arrears...over a matter of weeks she had been short or unpaid.

And arrears in the case of Mary Kelly ARE relevant, as they match the habits of Mary at her location prior to Millers Court....she was evicted from that location for just that reason.

Was McCarthy more reasonable or nicer....I doubt it. When Mary was evicted before there wasnt a rash of Unfortunates killed in the East End, many landlords were allowing some arrears rather than ejecting them into the dangerous night.

Cheers

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I would suggest its a fair bet. that the reason he was lenient with Kelly's rent arrears was his wife's interference ..
Lets be realistic, Mrs McCarthy was very much aware of the killers presence in the area, and would not expect her husband to kick Mary out on the streets..Indeed the day earlier she herself remarked to Kelly.about the killer, and Mary quoted'' He is a concern isn't he''?..
So there we have it..yes the rent was owed, but he was lenient with Mary, for compassionate reasons..
Regards Richard.

[c.d.]

I don't see the arrears as being anything significant. I think they were just par for the course. Given the economic status of most Whitechapel residents and especially the hit or miss income of those likely to be renting places such as Miller's Court, being behind in the rent was problem a regular occurrence. Even if McCarthy were to evict those who were behind, he would have to go to the trouble of finding new tenants who most likely would soon be behind in their rent as well. My guess is that he simply believed that he would eventually get paid at some point and that the money he took in from those who were on time with their rent was sufficient enough so that he could let some others go for awhile.

c.d.

[jason_c]

The creation of bogus rent arrears could have served to make McCarthy appear a nicer man than he really was; that in turn might have prevented anyone from shining too close a light on his relationship with the women who inhabited Millers Court. The whole thing is entirely speculative but rent arrears of such magnitude were surely most unusual.

It's McCarthy openly admitting to the extent of these arrears that can just as easily form the basis of them being of an innocent nature. He was never asked about the arrears directly, he was only asked how much rent per week was due. The total arrears was information he freely gave without being asked about them. From the reports of the inquest we can tell that such arrears did not cause the coroner to inquire about them further. No eyebrows seem to have been raised by anyone. If the arrears are sinister to us why weren't they sinister to those at the time? Why would McCarthy have pointed the finger at himself in such a public way?

Im playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here. Im in fact open to any possibility in regards to McCarthy's relationship to prostitution.

[jason_c]

G'Day Jason

Could be that it relates to the window, but it is always referred to as arrears n rent not damage.

As to recovering from existing tenant, if you mean the cost of the window yes.

But as any business person will tell you you have to cut your losses sometimes.

McCarthy seems like a pretty hard headed businessman interested in getting ahead.

Fair enough, I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Im just a bit wary of a tendency to assume McCarthy was some sort of pimp. From what I can tell he was never accused of such. This was a man with enemies. Yet its invariably a slum landlord he was accused of being. There were numerous local groups shouting from the rooftops the ills of the area. As far as I can remember(and I could be wrong) no private letters, police files, newspaper reports or fliers accuse McCarthy of living off the income of prostitution - other than in the form of rent. This is where its a fine line between McCarthy being a pimp and McCarthy having a "don't ask don't tell" policy over prostitution.

There is also the possibility that these arrears were in part what Kelly owed to McCarthy as a shopkeeper as well as landlord.

[Bridewell]

G'Day Dave

Those arrears always worry me. His story just doesn't ring true, there had to be some reason to let them run on so long. IF they existed.

The creation of bogus rent arrears could have served to make McCarthy appear a nicer man than he really was; that in turn might have prevented anyone from shining too close a light on his relationship with the women who inhabited Millers Court. The whole thing is entirely speculative but rent arrears of such magnitude were surely most unusual.

[GUT]

G'Day Jason

Could be that it relates to the window, but it is always referred to as arrears n rent not damage.

As to recovering from existing tenant, if you mean the cost of the window yes.

But as any business person will tell you you have to cut your losses sometimes.

McCarthy seems like a pretty hard headed businessman interested in getting ahead.

[jason_c]

G'Day Dave

Those arrears always worry me. His story just doesn't ring true, there had to be some reason to let them run on so long. IF they existed.

Couldn't the "arrears" have been run up not only via rent arrears but also through money due McCarthy for the broken window pane? I expect it would be easier for McCarthy to get this money back from the existing tenant rather than a new one.