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13 Miller's Court AFTER 1888.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by jason_c View Post
    If only people had been more ghoulish we may have had greater access to original Ripper items than we do today.

    Yeah, except that a lot of people would doubt that it came from there, so we'd be back to square one probably and with more to argue over.
    "What our ancestors would really be thinking, if they were alive today, is: "Why is it so dark in here?"" From Pyramids by Sir Terry Pratchett, a British National Treasure.

    __________________________________

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    • #17
      Does anyone wish to bid for a pair of Mary Kelly's knickers im selling on ebay?

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      • #18
        Thanks Chris.

        There's no indication that anyone ever opened that door, is there? I assumed it was a just another piece of salvaged wood that somebody used to improvise a wall.

        In any case, it would have been easier to take it down than to put it up, and if it were a door, easier still to unlock it and call it a two-room flat.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by George Hutchinson View Post
          Obviously, Chris, you're right. No way could six people be in a room that small.
          Only six, Phil? A mere bagatelle!

          From the East London Advertiser, Sept 15th 1888 (cited in "Urban Culture", ed. Chris Jenks, 2002 - also Google Books!), we find a family of nine living in such circumstances:
          "At an inquest held by Dr Macdonald, in Spitalfields, upon the death of a baby four months old, evidence was given that the parents and their seven children lived all together in one room about 12 feet square, for which they paid 4s 6d a week."

          ...spookily familiar
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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          • #20
            Ah, Gareth, but seven small children and two adults of one family - that is worthy of journalistic note, even amongst the LVP - isn't the same as three sets of different adults that doesn't get a mention, particularly given the newsworthiness of the room in question. I take your point, though. It seems the world of Henry Mayhew didn't change just because Mayhew was dead.

            Chris - I don't know if it's in a book, but I myself surmised that #13 may well have been both a kitchen and pantry in the original house. The fact there are two very different windows at different heights in the same small wall suggest that this was not a single room.

            PHILIP
            Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

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            • #21
              Hi Philip

              This is pure guesswork but I would imagine that as three heads of households are mentioned, the other people would have been living in Rooms#19 and #20 Millers Court which were on the floor above #13, inside 26 Dorset Street and maybe they were assembled in or outside #13 to give their details. Room#19 was, of course, the room directly above Kelly's room and #20 was the room at the front over the shed. Both were accessed via the door next to Kelly's in the passageway. Rob's transcription of the Kate Marshall murder trial in 1898 shows 3 adults and a child in #19 and a man and 2 young ladies in #20......

              http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=547

              Mary Kelly's room would have indeed been the kitchen or scullery of #26 originally. Practically all 18th and 19th Centuary terraced 'middle class' houses were built to a certain scheme. The ground floor front room would have been what is still quaintly called the 'reception' room with the 'sitting' room directly above. Bedrooms on the next floor and the servants in the attic. I would imagine that there was originally a corridor with a window at the end to provide light which would be the right hand window on the photo while the door would provide access to the garden.
              allisvanityandvexationofspirit

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              • #22
                Thanks, Stephen. In regards to the layout of the back, that's just like where I used to live. The house was only 100 years old, but my annexe had once been the kitchen and pantry and a corridor leading to it. Yes, a very unusual collection of small and oddly-shaped rooms.

                PHILIP
                Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

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                • #23
                  Out of interest does any one know at what date the houses in Dorset Street (particularly 26 and 27) were built?

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                  • #24
                    I don't know the exact date, but most of the buildings in Dorset Street were from about 1700.

                    PHILIP
                    Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

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                    • #25
                      Hi All!
                      This not directly related to what happended to Mary's room after the murder, but can someone of you confirm me that McCarthy tried to sell for something like 20£ Marys' bed?

                      Thank you very much,
                      All the best,

                      Antonio Sironi

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                      • #26
                        Hi Antonio,

                        Someone had offered to buy Mary's bed, but McCarthy refused.

                        Dan Norder
                        Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
                        Web site: www.RipperNotes.com - Email: dannorder@gmail.com

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                        • #27
                          I wonder what artifacts of the case still exist but the connection has been forgotten.
                          This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                          Stan Reid

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                          • #28
                            Spookily spooky that in the 1891 census in the somewhat 'cosy' room 13 where to be found a Thomas and Ann Kelly
                            'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by George Hutchinson View Post
                              Ah, Gareth, but seven small children and two adults of one family - that is worthy of journalistic note, even amongst the LVP - isn't the same as three sets of different adults that doesn't get a mention, particularly given the newsworthiness of the room in question. I take your point, though. It seems the world of Henry Mayhew didn't change just because Mayhew was dead.

                              Chris - I don't know if it's in a book, but I myself surmised that #13 may well have been both a kitchen and pantry in the original house. The fact there are two very different windows at different heights in the same small wall suggest that this was not a single room.

                              PHILIP

                              I saw it somewhere, too, and I think it could have been in Ms Pat's book. Note I said, "think."
                              "What our ancestors would really be thinking, if they were alive today, is: "Why is it so dark in here?"" From Pyramids by Sir Terry Pratchett, a British National Treasure.

                              __________________________________

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I've asked this before, but does anyone know when Millers Court was built? I'm assuming on the grounds of a stables or whatever for the original adjacent houses.

                                Was Dorset St as early as 1700? I thought it was slightly later than that...

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