Was Mrs Maxwell lying

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys ,
First of all nobody knew accept the killer, or people who he admitted to, that there was a body in room 13 , Millers court.
When Mrs Maxwell claimed to have seen Kelly , nobody knew there was a body lying on a bed..except the killer.
You refer to the fact that Maxwell dates the sighting around 815-830am, and by that time her husband had left work, and was most likely [ for any alibi to be effective] seen with reliable types who would vouch for his location after the time Maxwell claimed to have seen the victim.
Yet during the night he may not have had a alibi.and may not have been able to account for his exact movements.
So when it became clear that the body had not yet been discovered , after she had returned on a milk errand, by coming forth after 1045am, knowing that her husbands whereabouts could be checked from the time of her alleged sighting, to the discovery of the body, it surely would not point to him as a suspect.
Regards Richard.

[Robert]

Hi Beowulf

But are we to suppose that Mary Kelly went to her room, found a mutilated body and didn't bother to mention it to Mrs Maxwell? If on the other hand there was nobody on the bed at the time of the Maxwell sighting, then it makes more sense to suppose that Kelly was killed subsequently, rather than that someone else was murdered.

[Beowulf]

Only my opinion, but I do tend to think that leaving the victim in Mary's bed would probably kind of ruin the plan to disassociate the victim from Mary.

Except that people down to this day throw out the theory it wasn't Mary Kelly in the bed, and Mrs. Maxwell's tale is part of their supposed proof of that mystery.

[Robert]

Hi Jon

But surely we don't know where Henry was working. If he was working at #14, and Mrs Maxwell lived there too, then how could he "return from work"?

[Jon Guy]

Wouldn't Mrs Maxwell be doing the precise opposite to shielding her husband? She timed the sighting by her husband's return from work. The effect of post-dating the murder would be to remove his alibi, wouldn't it?

I don`t know, Robert, playing with this premise, if her husband was on the night shift in the building opposite Millers Court, and everyone was assuming that Kelly was killed during the night, Maxwell may have thought that making out Kelly was alive later that morning alibied her husband.

[Robert]

Wouldn't Mrs Maxwell be doing the precise opposite to shielding her husband? She timed the sighting by her husband's return from work. The effect of post-dating the murder would be to remove his alibi, wouldn't it?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon.
I never knew there was a article written, is it available.
Don't tell me two of us are on a certain path.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard

Sorry, I was only codding about the article, hence the little wink. but I have mentioned this angle a couple of times on the boards in the past.
I was so tickled by the title I may go for it after all.

[curious]

Both Bond and Phillips had trouble estimating Times of Death, this much is evident.

Are we sure about that?

Perhaps we, 125 years distance, need to believe they could not estimate deaths accurately for reasons of our own.

curious

[richardnunweek]

Hi Jon.
I never knew there was a article written, is it available.
Don't tell me two of us are on a certain path.
Regards Richard.

[pinkmoon]

needs investigating

Hi Richard,having read through this thread I do believe you have something here this certainly needs more investigation .Let's face it people have thrown time and money at a lot more crazy things like royal coaches and diarys from Liverpool

[Jon Guy]

Hi Richard

Maxwell's husband has never been looked into , so the answer is he has never been eliminated from suspicion.

I have covered this angle in my article "Trouble Brewing at Maxwell House"

;-)

[richardnunweek]

Hi Beowulf.
Maxwell's husband has never been looked into , so the answer is he has never been eliminated from suspicion.
It is entirely possible that by destroying Kelly's face the killer was hoping to distance himself from any possible identification via her eyes,which may give some credence to him having a knowledge of the person.
At least this thread in a small way, has got people talking over different angles, which is only beneficial.
Regards Richard.

[Ginger]

What if he deliberately cut the dead woman's face up so that no one could identify WHO was murdered because of some particular recent tie to Mary that would make people think of him as a suspect immediately.

Only my opinion, but I do tend to think that leaving the victim in Mary's bed would probably kind of ruin the plan to disassociate the victim from Mary.

[Beowulf]

Hi Stan.
Whilst you raise a good point about being counter productive, let's add on this.
Suppose Maxwell suspected her husband of being the Ripper, and she found out that she had sent a letter addressed to the Norfolk police with the address of 14, Dorset street on it, their very address, lets also surmise that she had discovered that morning that her husband was blood stained, or in a highly excitable manner, and he had informed her what he had done.
Lets not forget that after this murder, the police were quite adamant that the killer may have had a accomplice , or at least assisted the killer after the deed.
What would she do?
She may have been paranoid [ because of the letter] that a murder right opposite their residence may have been now considered not just a hoax , and came calling, and when it became obvious that the body had yet to be discovered, she may have attempted to give her husband an alibi, by letting him be seen with her in Dorset street after she claimed to have seen Kelly, and remain so until the body was discovered.
A lot of speculative ideas , but nothing is cut and dried in this case, especially Millers court.
Regards Richard.

Is there any reason to suppose her husband was NOT the Ripper? What if he was and his wife was trying to protect him? What if he deliberately cut the dead woman's face up so that no one could identify WHO was murdered because of some particular recent tie to Mary that would make people think of him as a suspect immediately.

Maybe he had some association with her he felt was very likely to lead them right to his door but it was a clue never discovered. Then his loyal wife, Mrs. Maxwell led everyone on a merry goose chase with her story? I'm guessing this has been an oft perused motive?

[Wickerman]

.
.
That would leave us to ask the question.?
Who was the last officially named person to claim to have seen Mary Kelly, if one leaves out Maxwell?
Maurice Lewis.

Hi Richard.

1st question: - What do you mean by 'officially named person'?
2nd question: - Do you mean, "if one leaves out Maxwell & Maurice Lewis", or
Do you mean, "if one leaves out Maxwell, - Maurice Lewis"?

Far be it from me to say something controversial but, as far as 'the last person to see Mary Kelly' goes, I think that was Mrs Kennedy.