Mary Jane Kelly from Tottenham - further details

[Celesta]

Hi Chris,

This is so intriguing! It's the kind of stuff that lured me to the site in the first place. Whether there is a valid link to our Mary Jane or not, the story is interesting in its on right. Why would a family have such a tradition? That in itself might make an interesting article. Let's say for a moment, that this is the real MJK. Why did she keep her identity a secret from all but the family? Because of her reputation as a prostitute? If it isn't the real MJK, then what is going on with these people? There are so many threads to follow here, if one had the time.

Thanks, Chris. Good stuff.

[Chris Scott]

There are two documents on their way to me which I will transcribe and post when I receive them.
The first is part of the army papers of the father of the Mary Kelly who features in the story about which this thread was started. These papers show that her father, Dennis Kelly, was from Limerick
The second is the death certificate of Alfred Joel, the source of this story.
Name: Alfred Joel
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 38
District: Caistor
County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 390

I don't know if I related this story on the old boards but it is rather macabre. Alfred died his own hand in 1895 at the age of 38. Apparently the cause of death given is "hanged while of unsound mind"
Alfred was a carpenter and joiner and made his own coffin before hanging himself.
As soon as I have these documents I will post them
Chris

[Suzi]

Fascinating stuff Chris

The thing that tantalises me is that wherever THE MJK lurks within or without of a census...she was there somewhere!!



By the by though (Slightly off track sorry) I've suddenly noticed the slight but noticable likeness between Annie Besant and MJK...Not saying that AB met her end in Millers Court of course....but there's a wayward thought!!!....but just that the face set struck me.




Suz x

[Chris Scott]

Below are the details from two documents:
1) Part of the army papers of Mary Kelly's father, Dennis
2) The death certificate of Alfred Joel, source of the story of the Mary Kelly discussed in this thread

Army Papers

Document headed:
Declaration to be Made and Signed When the Soldier Receives His Discharge at his Own Request

No.: 2287 Sergt. Major D. Kelly
referred to in the preceding pages, by
Trade a Labourer
was born in the Parish of Hurrod?
near the town of Limerick
in the County of Limerick
and attested for the 36 Regt.
at Westminster
in the County of Middlesex
on the 3 November 1851
at the Age of 19
His final description, &c., when discharged from the Service, at.....
this... day of... 18...
Age 37 years 5 months
Height 5 feet 8.5 inches
Complexion Fresh
Eyes Grey
Hair Brown
Trade Labourer
Marks of Scars upon the face, or other parts of the body None
Intended Place of Residence...

Following note added by hand:
H45554
Inc'd to 2s 9.5d (two shillings and ninepence halfpenny) for 10 years service as Sergt. Major on Permanent Staff of Longford Rifles - 18.5.80

Death Certificate of Alfred Joel
Registration District: Caistor
Year: 1895
Sub District: Great Grimsby
County: Lincoln

When and where died: 28 November 1895 Workshop of Messrs. Nightingale and Danby, Convamore Road, Grimsby
Name and Surname: Alfred Joel
Sex: Male
Age: 38 years
Occupation: Joiner (foreman) late of 343 Convamore, Road, Grimsby
Cause of Death: Suicide by hanging whilst of unsound mind
Informant: Certificate received from Coroner for the Borough of Grimsby. Inquest held 29 November 1895
When registered: 30 November 1895

[Chris Scott]

Below is part of the army papers of D Kelly.
The Parish in Limerick I cannot make out
I have found a list of Civil parishes in Limerick in the 19th c but none seem compatible with the entry on this army form
Any suggested reading would be gratefully received
Chris

[Chris Scott]

Below is the handwritten note attached to the form above

[Mike Covell]

Hi Chris, excellent work as always.
Perhaos this site might help, It looks as if it's intended for clergy but there is a box at the bottom. If you click on the parish box it lists all the parish's.
None however match the parish on the sheet.

http://www.limerickdiocese.org/

[Mike Covell]

This is a list of parishes from the website,

http://www.cashel-emly.ie/main/parishes/

Again, none seem to match.

Thurles
Gortnahoe & Glengoole
Anacarty & Donohill
Holycross & Ballycahill
Ballina & Boher
Hospital & Herbertstown
Ballinahinch & Kiloscully
Kilbehenny & Anglesboro
Ballingarry
Kilcommon & Hollyford & Rearcross
Ballybricken & Bohermore
Killenaule & Moyglass
Ballylanders
Kilteely & Dromkeen
Bansha & Kilmoyler
Knockaney & Patrickswell
Boherlahan & Dualla
Knockavilla & Donaskeigh
Borrisoleigh & Ileigh
Knocklong & Glenbrohane
Caherconlish & Inch
St. Laurence
Lattin & Cullen
Cappamore
Loughmore & Castleiney
Cappawhite
Moycarkey, Two-Mile-Borris & Littleton
Cashel & Rosegreen
Mullinahone
Clerihan
Murroe & Boher
Clonoulty & Rossmore
New Inn & Knockgraffon
Doon
Newport, Birdhill & Toor
Drangan
Pallasgreen & Templebraden
Drom & Inch
Solohead & Oola
Emly
Templemore, Clonmore & Killea
Fethard & Killusty
Templetuohy & Moyne
Galbally & Lisvernane
Tipperary
Golden & Kilfeacle
Upperchurch & Drombane

[Chris Scott]

Hi Mike
Thanks for the message
Yes, that was the site I found but couldnt see anything remotely like the entry on the army papers
Regards
Chris

[revpetero]

Limerick Map

Can you relate the parish to this map

[Christine]

I'm fairly sure that Hurrod, which doesn't seem to be the name of anything, anywhere. Here's a list of the Limerick dioceses of the church of Ireland, though.

[Christine]

Civil parishes of Limerick. Not much here either, unless it's a misunderstanding of "Darragh."

[Debra A]

Hi Chris,
Again, interesting stuff here.
I couldn't see a date on Serg. Major Kelly's discharge papers that you posted, I tried to work it out from the age details given, was the 10 year term served with the Longford rifles after his discharge?

Here's a snippet from the Freemans Journal, Dublin Ireland, Sat March 23 1878 relating to his position on the permanent staff of the Rifles mentioned in the discharge papers;

Longford rifles-Sergeant Major D. Kelly is to be enrolled on the permanent staff for a further term of 5 years

I wonder if there is anyone with any military knowledge about reading this, I'd love to know if his enrollment in the Longford rifles might give any clues about his religious persuasions?

[Sam Flynn]

This is a list of parishes from the website,

http://www.cashel-emly.ie/main/parishes/

Again, none seem to match.

This one seems to:

Murroe & Boher

...at least, the "Murroe" bit does. Note the "M" matches that in "Middlesex", and is followed by "urro" and a squiggle. My money's on Murroe.

[Chris Scott]

I think you have it Sam
Murroe would seem to be it
many thanks for that
Chris