'Johnto'

[erobitha]

I have established a marriage between William Davies and Mary Thomas in 1879 in Carmarthen. A William Davies died in the 1880 Risca colamine disaster.

[Chava]

As I am one of those advocates of the "John Thomas Theory" I note you have no evidence to discount the theory other than hearsay of your inetraction with a Welsh nanny?

Have you also ruled out the possibility of the fact that Thomas could have been his middle name as well as his surname? John Thomas Thomas makes a strong candiate for "Johnto".

I was online researching Wesh surnames etc when I saw this. And while so far I've nothing more than anecdotal evidence to suggest my original idea, I did find out some very interesting info that might really muddy the waters. Apparently in Wales until at least the mid 19th C there was a blending of patronymics and true surnames where the 'surname' was in fact a patronymic. And not necessarily the name of the father. It could also be the name of the grandfather. There were also arbitrary occasions where a subject might be known by two names--one a patronymic, one a surname. The example I've seen given is 'David Morgan Huw' who is also down in some records as 'David Morgan'.. It seems names are a moveable feast in Wales right up until the early 20th C. In other words if we go looking for, say, Kelly's young husband whose name was given as Davies, (for the sake of this post I'll call him John) he might have been registered in a mine disaster as John Davies. Or he might have been registered as, say, John Davies Williams--a patronymic--or John Davies Thomas--his grandfather's name. Or the list maker might have dropped the Davies completely as a middle name. And then the poor boy goes down as John Williams or John Thomas.

My beloved Nanny's name btw was Violet Thomas. Maybe she was a relation to Johnto...

[erobitha]

My brother used to joke that his son is "John too",as was our father.

Confident John III will continue the tradition.

My Mary Kelly's brother was called John and their dad was also called John. So John too could be viable too.

[DJA]

My brother used to joke that his son is "John too",as was our father.

Confident John III will continue the tradition.

[erobitha]

As I am one of those advocates of the "John Thomas Theory" I note you have no evidence to discount the theory other than hearsay of your inetraction with a Welsh nanny?

Have you also ruled out the possibility of the fact that Thomas could have been his middle name as well as his surname? John Thomas Thomas makes a strong candiate for "Johnto".

[Chava]

I know that various John Thomases have been cited as possible brothers to MJK. But with respect I think it's much more likely that 'Johnto' is a nickname for someone whose name is John Thomas Smith/Jones/Kelly/Whatever. The much-loved Welsh Nanny who brought me up always called me by both names. And I've come across this a lot when visiting there. So 'Thomas' in my opinion is not likely to be Johnto's surname.