Was it a frenzy?

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
In the case of Kelly I would say no frenzy, or act of diminished responsibility, was in evidence, and it would appear that the whole episode was carried out in a very sordid, and calculating manner.
We do not know that the fire was lit by the killer, but we know that items were burnt by him, and according to the police for a reason[ Bloodstained]
The only sighting of a man with blood on his person was in Mitre square at 1010am, who was in a frightful hurry, with a parcel under his arm..I have always felt that the location was of some importance, and the timing which could indicate a morning murder.
Regards Richard.

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"How do we know the killer lit the fire?"

We don´t - but we know about the blaze, something that Kelly herself reasonably would not cause.

"The latter surely."

Aha - okay, Lynn, then we´re agreed on this.

"Looks like a removal to me--assassin mentally deranged."

Assassin out of the ordinary anyways. "Mentally deranged" has an unfortunate ring of "out of control" to my ears. And I would not say that.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

Q & A

Hello Christer.

"1. A frenzy is something that is led on by a bloodred haze, something that goes down quickly in most cases. Yet it seems that Kelly´s killer spent some considerable time in No 13, cutting away. The "normal" frenzy wears off quickly - a flurry of stabs, twenty swift chops with a meat-cleaver, a set of blows to somebodys head with a piece of pipe until the perpetrator draws lactic acid upon him and winds down, realizing what he has done ... those sorts of things. But in Kellys case, so many areas were so extensively attacked under so long a time, including that cut to the neck, the breasts being removed with circular incisions, all inner organs being taken out etcetera. If it was a frenzy, it went on for ages and the killer did all sorts of things during it."

Agreed. Frenzy does not properly describe the assassin's condition.

"2. Would a frenzied killer take the time to light a fire and entertain it?"

Likely not. How do we know the killer lit the fire?

"3. Placing chunks of meat on a table beside the bed in an almost neat and orderly fashion - is that what frenzied killers do?"

Don't think so.

"4. The organs that were taken out were placed between the victim´s feet, under her head etcetera. Weird? Yes. Mad? Possibly. Frenzied? Not really, is it?"

Again, not a frenzy. Mental disturbance? Quite.

"5. Prater said she could hear what went on in Kellys room - since when does a frenzied killer go absolutely quietly about his business?"

Ditto.

"6. Would a frenzied killer cut the throat of his victim in one corner of the bed, and then meticulously turn her over in order to gain better access to her body and facilitate his work?"

Vide supra.

"7. Frenzied killers - do they arrive silently and unnoticed and leave just as silently and just as unnoticed?"

Probably not.

"8. If the carnage was the result of a frenzy, then the killer would have been soaked in Kellys blood. No sighting of such a man was made on the streets, making it probable that he took precautions, either before or after the cutting, to be tolerably presentable as he left the room. Do frenzied killers do such things?"

No.

"9. Apparently, the killer placed Kelly's left arm over her abdomen before leaving the room. Would a frenzied killer do this?"

Well, not DURING a frenzy.

"What are your thoughts on this? Was it a frenzy anyway? Or was the killer focused, silent and in control of what he did throughout?"

The latter surely. Looks like a removal to me--assassin mentally deranged.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Hi David!

This has all the makings of an interesting thread - we agree ...?

All the best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Hi Fish, agreed entirely. All valid points.

[Fisherman]

Hi all!

I have a question of a general character that I would like to hear your thoughts on. I often read that the Kelly murder was the result of a total frenzy, but I think a number of questions must be raised on the issue.

Of course, what Bowyer saw, peering through that window, must have been completely harrowing and something that led the thoughts to a madman who had gone berserk. But let´s look at a few parameters that are seemingly contradictory to the frenzy suggestion.

1. A frenzy is something that is led on by a bloodred haze, something that goes down quickly in most cases. Yet it seems that Kelly´s killer spent some considerable time in No 13, cutting away. The "normal" frenzy wears off quickly - a flurry of stabs, twenty swift chops with a meat-cleaver, a set of blows to somebodys head with a piece of pipe until the perpetrator draws lactic acid upon him and winds down, realizing what he has done ... those sorts of things. But in Kellys case, so many areas were so extensively attacked under so long a time, including that cut to the neck, the breasts being removed with circular incisions, all inner organs being taken out etcetera. If it was a frenzy, it went on for ages and the killer did all sorts of things during it.
2. Would a frenzied killer take the time to light a fire and entertain it?
3. Placing chunks of meat on a table beside the bed in an almost neat and orderly fashion - is that what frenzied killers do?
4. The organs that were taken out were placed between the victim´s feet, under her head etcetera. Weird? Yes. Mad? Possibly. Frenzied? Not really, is it?
5. Prater said she could hear what went on in Kellys room - since when does a frenzied killer go absolutely quietly about his business?
6. Would a frenzied killer cut the throat of his victim in one corner of the bed, and then meticulously turn her over in order to gain better access to her body and facilitate his work?
7. Frenzied killers - do they arrive silently and unnoticed and leave just as silently and just as unnoticed?
8. If the carnage was the result of a frenzy, then the killer would have been soaked in Kellys blood. No sighting of such a man was made on the streets, making it probable that he took precautions, either before or after the cutting, to be tolerably presentable as he left the room. Do frenzied killers do such things?
9. Apparently, the killer placed Kellys left arm over her abdomen before leaving the room. Would a frenzied killer do this?

What are your thoughts on this? Was it a frenzy anyway? Or was the killer focused, silent and in control of what he did throughout?

The best,
Fisherman