I Think MJK was Welsh with Irish Ancestry

[Paddy]

Dave, Could only find James in one census 1871 living at 9 Turville street......Cant find him or wife after that...

[DJA]

Dave.... Henry Kelly 1871...4 Mount street Bethnal Green / 1881 5 st Peter Street Bethnal Green / 1891 With brother Edward saying he is single at 13 Doddsleys Folley Shoreditch st Leonard....

Thanks very much Paddy.Shall have a better look a bit later.Flat out right now.

¶"Neither the vestry nor the M.B.W. were anxious to tackle the worst slum, the Nichol. In 1883 the board dismissed as 'too small' an appeal by Shoreditch's medical officer of health to deal with Boundary Street involving only 29 houses (fn. 79) and as too big a scheme by Bethnal Green's medical officer to demolish all the houses in the Nichol under the Artisans' Dwelling Act. Instead the board decided to apply the Torrens Act requiring owners to repair and render the premises 'tolerably comfortable' "

Guess who Shoreditch's medical officer of health was

Worth noting the Carter families' history in the area.

Bethnal Green: Building and Social Conditions from 1876 to 1914 | British History Online

Bethnal Green: The West, Shoreditch Side, Spitalfields, and the Nichol | British History Online

[DJA]

Interesting quote in Henry Sutton's obituary about him "feeling his way" into a patient and "no doctor relied more on his sense of touch".

Could be useful for finding organs in the dark...

Bit OT however, note how soon after arriving in Thrawl Street, where Eddowes was looking after her sister Eliza Gold,Nichols moves next door to Eddowes.

Eddowes is off hopping and returns seeking a reward.

Some people cannot see that these two were old acquaintances ..... from December 1867 when they were Sutton's inpatients.

The "post mortem" in Mitre Square was actually carefully targeted, as pointed out previously.

Not to mention how close to The London Hospital Nichols was murdered.

[Paddy]

Dave.... Henry Kelly 1871...4 Mount street Bethnal Green / 1881 5 st Peter Street Bethnal Green / 1891 With brother Edward saying he is single at 13 Doddsleys Folley Shoreditch st Leonard....

[DJA]

Ripper mate,as we say in Oz.

Any addresses for those Bethnal Green Kelly's?

Especially in the vicinity of Squirries Street and Bethnal Green Road (305).
Am aware there were number changes about then,possibly with 1870/71 being pivotal.

[Paddy]

[DJA]

Yep.

His BMJ obituary is full of interesting observations.

Quite possibly a high functioning Asperger.

Lectured with his left thumb in his trousers pocket.

"He possessed an amiability and delicacy of character which was almost womanlike .... "

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Interesting quote in Henry Sutton's obituary about him "feeling his way" into a patient and "no doctor relied more on his sense of touch".

Could be useful for finding organs in the dark...

[DJA]

The whole shebang was an enormous cover up to ensure Sutton was not arrested.He was being blackmailed ..... again.

Reckon both Eddowes' and Mary Ann Kelly's defactos only knew part of the story.

Kidney,Stride's ex, telling the cops he required a strange young detective in order to catch "Jack" infers he had some idea.Naive though.

Remember Mary Ann Kelly worked in a gay house several years before the five murders.
A visit to Le Chabanais run by Madame Kelly AKA Alexandrine Joannet would have inspired her new monicker.

The Labouchere Amendment on 7th August 1885 was the turning point.

MAK was living her own witness protection scheme.

Enjoy tonight!

[mpriestnall]

1. MsWeatherwas thanks for the starting this thread.

2. DJA, if MJK is London born, that's opens up some interesting questions as to regard to Joe Barnett's testimony and also the integrity of the inquest, no?

3. Tonight's Whitechapel Society Interims topic will be "Why can't Mary Jane Kelly be found?", which I'm looking forward to.

Was JB's nervousness due to him knowing he was telling some porkies?

Martyn

[DJA]

Below is a post from 9/5/2017.
The family tree is research by our very own "Paddy".
Most bases are filled , John Two, Fair Emma,etc.
Mary Ann Kelly was baptized at St. Leonard's Church where Henry Gawen Sutton was Vestry Board Medical Officer during her childhood.
It is the same Church/Town Hall where her Inquest was held and her body stored.


Reckon this is our Mary Kelly.

Turned up in the 1881 Census being treated for VD.

Oldest brother,Jno, married Louisa and lived in Turville Street during the 1881 Census.
Old Nichol.

Think a lot of Peartree Court slum was torn down and rebuilt early 1880s.




Mary A Kelly
England and Wales Census, 1861
Name Mary A Kelly
County London, Middlesex
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place St Leonard Shoreditch, London, Middlesex, England
Ecclesiastical Parish St Leonard Shoreditch
Registration District Shoreditch
Residence Note Pear Tree Court
Gender Female
Age 2
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1859
Birthplace Shoreditch, Middlesex
Page Number 11
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 235 / 66
Affiliate Record Type Household
Household

Role

Sex

Age

Birthplace
John Kelly Head M 43 Bishopsgate, Middlesex
Emma Kelly Wife F 42 St Luke, Middlesex
John Kelly Son M 22 Shoreditch, Middlesex
James Kelly Son M 19 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Edward Kelly Son M 16 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Henry Kelly Son M 12 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Emma Kelly Daughter F 7 Shoreditch, Middlesex
Mary A Kelly Daughter F 2 Shoreditch, Middlesex

[MsWeatherwax]

Sorry, it's my annual "Ponder MJK Week", apparently.

I know this is flimsy, but one of the few things we know is that Mary used to get letters from her brother, Johnto/Jonto. I just can't get past the possibility that this is a misspelling or Anglicisation of 'Ianto', which is Welsh for John.

An Irish family would surely not name or nickname their child with a very traditional Welsh name?

I feel like perhaps Mary had one Irish parent, or Irish grandparents (or further back!), and has used that heritage as the foundations of the very elaborate backstory we now 'know'.

In short, I think Ireland is a dead end. I feel like it's more likely that Mary was born in Wales to the descendants of an Irish family.

All immaterial, because I honestly doubt that the names Kelly or Davies bear any relation to her real name, and I don't think it'll make her any easier to trace. Just a thought, really.