Soliciting or night attack.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
The bedroll is [ in my opinion] a clue to the T.O.D, it is as Sam mentions tightly rolled, and most unlikely to have been manhandled by a sardistic killer, especially during the night in a darkened room.
I would suggest that no sex took place, and kelly was attacked in daylight around 9am[ pure speculation] whilst prepearing to greet a man she thought was with sex intentions.
The bedrolled rolled back by kelly before leaving the room around 8am, and the fire also lit.
Regards Richard.

[Sam Flynn]

nor do I really understand the significance of the "bedroll". Surely the killer did the "rolling" himself in order to facillitate the ensuing mutilations?

Don't think so, Ben - he'd surely have just flung it to one side and got on with it, whereas that blanket was quite tightly rolled-up. I really can't see Jack (or whoever it was) taking that amount of time, not only to do the rolling in the first place, but also to put the blanket where it ended up, and furthermore drape one of Mary's stockings neatly across the top of it.

[KatBradshaw]

This explanation would seem to be the most consistent with the evidence, Kat, particularly that of Mary Ann Cox.

Richard, I'm really not sure why you think that the suggested presence of a single sock is more indicative of preparation for sex with an oddly impatient client that it is of intoxication and absent-mindedness, nor do I really understand the significance of the "bedroll". Surely the killer did the "rolling" himself in order to facillitate the ensuing mutilations? The bed was also unlikely have provided room for two supine adult bodies, at least not without significant discomfort.

Best regards,
Ben

Yes but only one needs to be supine.

[Ben]

Yes, or she came home sozzled and past out in her clothes.

This explanation would seem to be the most consistent with the evidence, Kat, particularly that of Mary Ann Cox.

Richard, I'm really not sure why you think that the suggested presence of a single sock is more indicative of preparation for sex with an oddly impatient client that it is of intoxication and absent-mindedness, nor do I really understand the significance of the "bedroll". Surely the killer did the "rolling" himself in order to facillitate the ensuing mutilations? The bed was also unlikely have provided room for two supine adult bodies, at least not without significant discomfort.

Best regards,
Ben

[richardnunweek]

Hello Sam.
True it had been raining on and off throughout the night, and depending on the strength , puddles could have formed, however reports indicate the ashes was still relatively warm , when police entered the room, indicating the fire could have been lit at a much later time.
I have never had the opinion that the killer would have lit a fire for light, at any stage during that murder, kelly lit that fire for warmth in my opinion, for reasons stated.
Regards Richard.

[Addy]

In Paul Begg's book it states that they thought she was asleep because of cuts on the sheet, that indicated it had been pulled up to her chin when she was attacked. That's where the asleep idea came from. She could have been cold as well (the window was broken and it was a draughty room), so she pulled up the bedding to remain warm. As far as I remember there was a lot of blood soaked up by the bedding and the matress, so the idea was she was cut lying down.

Nice thought on the fire!

Greetings,

Addy

[Sam Flynn]

Good point, Richard - although it was raining long before Mrs Maxwell's sighting, and Kelly could have got her boots wet via puddles... even if there were no rain actually falling when she was out on the streets.

I've little doubt, though, that you've hit upon a very convincing reason for Mary's having lit the fire herself. She needed those clothes/boots to be dry for the next day's "work".

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
The kelly mystery is a fascinating aspect to the Whitechapel murders, so many opinions which are so plausible, I do not go along with the 'Sleep with a client' idea , more of a quickie laying down on a bed more like.
As for the fire, one could easily get the opinion that it was lit by MJK to boil water for a expected client, but never got to actually remove the kettle, hense the melted spout.
And boots laid near the grate.
It was raining that night, especially in the early morning[ note Catherine picketts knock to borrow a shawl because of the drizzle] at 730am, Marys clothing would have got damp, if she had ventured out, so a logical place to place wet boots on return would be in that position, ie, near a fire, assuming it was lit, otherwise no point.
Regards Richard.

[DVV]

She undressed for sex, or was about to sleep, I don't know.

But the most likely scenario to me is that she had a visit and prepared to sleep with the visitor. I also think they lit the fire together.
Then she undressed (almost completely, as it seems, though nothing can be proved), and was attacked when sleeping or about to sleep.

No intruder, in my opinion, and her last client was Blotchy.

Amitiés,
David

[KatBradshaw]

Hi Kat,
That being the case, she managed to undress down to a chemise, and if the crime scene, according to my opinion shows a sock on her right leg, then she nearly made it before passing out.
I still prefer the undressing for sex, awaiting Mr Porter to arrive choice.
Richard.

I have to say I agree that she had prepared herself for her client. The only thing that has ever bothered me is the where the blood spray appears to have gone. It would seems she was laying on her back when she was cut, the blood spraying up the wall. This seems an awfully awkward place to attack someone from. Unless she was lying with her head in his lap??

That being said its not uncommon for people to wake up with one boot still on and one off!

[richardnunweek]

Hi Kat,
That being the case, she managed to undress down to a chemise, and if the crime scene, according to my opinion shows a sock on her right leg, then she nearly made it before passing out.
I still prefer the undressing for sex, awaiting Mr Porter to arrive choice.
Richard.

[KatBradshaw]

Hi,
The presense of the bedroll, which appears to been in a rolled up position, and what looks like a garter or sock on her right leg[ much discussed] to me would suggest a getting ready for sex, with the client in impatient mode.
Whats more would depict a morning scene rather then middle of the night.
Regards Richard.

Yes, or she came home sozzled and past out in her clothes.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Kat,
Heaven forbid, just an opinion of mine, on the murder scene
Regards Richard.

[KatBradshaw]

Uhoh!! We are getting dangerously close to bolster debate here!

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
The presense of the bedroll, which appears to been in a rolled up position, and what looks like a garter or sock on her right leg[ much discussed] to me would suggest a getting ready for sex, with the client in impatient mode.
Whats more would depict a morning scene rather then middle of the night.
Regards Richard.