Did Astracan kill Mary Kelly

[harry]

The thing that has always intrigued me as far as Hutchinson is concerned,is that to him(Hutchinson)it was a surprise at seeing such a well dressed man,and this seems to be his reason for following.To me the greatest surprise would have been seeing anyone go with her to her room,for wasn't she living there with Barnett?To have affected no surprise of this ,appears to me that Hutchinson was quite aware of Kelly's domestic situation,that she and Barnett had split and she was there alone that night.Knowledge that a potential killer would find rather usefull.That Hutchinson makes no mention whatsoever of those domestic arrangements,and him being a long time friend appears to me rather odd.It might have aided his story to suggest he hung around fearfull for her safety,as he knew she was living alone.Did he intentionally avoid the subject for some reason?

[richardnunweek]

Hi Folks,
We dont want this to end up a revised Hutchinson thread do we?
If we take Hutch at his word , and who are we to doubt, then he was simply waiting there as curiosity..
Ben.
I was attempting to use a scenerio, which would appear to fit what little information we have, I admit it was rather tonque-in-cheek to suggest that the local lodgings were full, however he may have said something to Mary along the lines of 'I was intending to find lodgings , however with hindsight i am a bit overdresssed for that, they may think I am Jack... which caused both of them to laugh.
If I am correct was a couple not seen in Dorset street, in the early hours of the 9th[ the female alleged to have been kelly] laughing at the reward poster near the court entrance.
I would take an educated guess that many men said to there date 'Mayby I am Jack ..just for jolly.
But in the case of MjK. it proberly was.
Regards Richard.

[celticsun]

Possibe reasons

Hello Richard. This all sounds so inviting.


Any ideas about Hutchinson's motive for the great time expenditure?

The best.
LC

Hi LC,

This is not my own thinking, but here are 3 reasons that make sense to me.

1) He may have been waiting for Astracan to leave to get some money off Kelly.

2) He may have been waiting for Astracan to leave so he could stay with Kelly for the night as it was cold.

3) He may have been waiting to rob Astracan.

Sincerely,

Celticsun

[Ben]

Hi Richard,

I have been trying to find a place to sleep, but all the lodgings are full, so i was going to wait until daybreak to call on you, I was going to call on you , but it was late, can I stay with you?

It just isn't plausible to envisage an opulently and ostentatiously dressed man looking for lodgings in somewhere like Whitechapel or Spitalfields, especially if his overall appearance just happened to correspond with popular perception as to what the ripper might look like: sinister, Jewish, outsider, possibly well-dressed by virtue of his medical credentials etc etc. It's just too convenient. If someone told me they had seen the Loch Ness monster - slimy, green, two humps, wearing a tartan scarf and chewing a thistle, I'd be just as sceptical. I'd think, hang on, this is far too close to the generic comic book perception of Nessie's appearance. Something's terribly wrong here.

And the same is true of Astrakhan man.

I don't believe Astrakhan killed Kelly.

So courting controversy once again, I'd suggest that maybe, just maybe, Hutchinson made him up.

All the best,
Ben

[lynn cates]

Hutchinson and time

Hello Richard. This all sounds so inviting.

The first time I read Hutchinson's testimony, I scratched my head and asked, "What the devil was he waiting on for 45 minutes? Was he sweet on Kelly?"

A satisfactory answer here would help make Astrakhan look much better as a suspect.

Any ideas about Hutchinson's motive for the great time expenditure?

The best.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hello everyone,
Whilst I appreciate that many of you do not believe the 'Lying lies of George' , and reject Hutchinson as a credible witness, the fact remains that we have his account in black and white as historical evidence.
I will put aside my many theories, which include Barnett, and Maxwells market porter, as possible candidates, not to mention a few others, and take a look at the possibilty that Hutchinson[ whoever he may be] actually saw the killer of Kelly.
We have the oral history account, that she was planning to go to the lord mayors show on the 9th November, and we have the description of the man that apparently accosted the victim , witnessed by GH, and we have his opinion that the person was dressed rather dapper for the neighbourhood, and it was because of this he was attentive.
We also have an account of the meeting between kelly and Astracan, which could imply knowledge of each other, the laughter, and the hand around the shoulder, not to mention the kiss in Dorset street, we have the alleged conversation 'I have lost my hankerchief', and the handing of one to Mary.
Did this man on a previous occasion give her a gift of one I ask?, and he handed her another.
I therefore offer the following scenerio.
This murder was premeditated, kelly had been in the company of this man on previous occassions, and they were aquainted enough for him to share a drink or two, and possibly a gift, he knew that her lover Barnett had since left her accomodation, and she had mentioned to him that she would love to be able to go and see the lord mayors show, but she had no one to go with.
On hearing that he mentioned that he would take her, and would call on her early on the morning of the 9th around 9am.
Mjk therefore aware of this decided to cut short her normal last visit to another pub on her way home, in order to keep herself as sober as possible for the next day. it was whilst making her way home that she came across a man , that has become known as 'Blotchy' , and she invited him back for a song , and possible favours, as
a] she hated to return to millers court alone, since she had a bad dream during october.
b] To aquire a few pennies to spend at the show the following morning.
After Blotchy left , kelly alone in her room, decided to try and obtain a few more pence, venturing out again, and she walks towards a figure she knew , one George Hutchinson, and she asks him for money, after saying he had none, she walks on , and is approached by Astracan, and after a second or two, realizes that this was the man she knew , the man that was going to take her to the show.
'Well what have we here my dear' all the finery'?
They both laugh aloud.
I have been trying to find a place to sleep, but all the lodgings are full, so i was going to wait until daybreak to call on you, I was going to call on you , but it was late, can I stay with you?
Alright my luv , you will be comftable' was the reply.
The truth of the matter was Astracan was waiting to call on kelly, but she was approaching him, so what a slice of luck.
She wanted to go to the show, and she happens to meet up with a man dressed in his very best, that she feels at ease with , and she without hesitation offers him back to her room, even though she apparently was rather paronoid about the recent murders.
So the question is Casebook, was Astracan Kellys killer, and was the eve / morning of the 9th november a premeditated act.?
Regards Richard.