Did Astracan kill Mary Kelly

[lynn cates]

sanctions

Hello CD. That's an interesting notion. I wonder if there would have been legal sanctions for him afterward? I suppose they could be waived?

The best.
LC

[perrymason]

I wonder some things about him too cd.....like maybe was he paid by someone to even offer the story in the first place? Like maybe someone who owned and wore often a Wideawake Hat.

Cheers

[Chava]

I wonder some things about him too cd.....like maybe was he paid by someone to even offer the story in the first place? Like maybe someone who owned and wore often a Wideawake Hat.

Cheers

When I fancied John McCarthy for the Kelly kill--and he is still not completely off my hook but he's almost wriggled free--I thought exactly that. McCarthy or someone else had paid or otherwise persuaded Hutchinson to give a particular description that would take the heat off him. Something like 'Hey Hutchinson, the filth are all over me on this Kelly murder because I'm her landlord. You know I would never do anything like that! But I don't need them prying into my private affairs, so if you could do me a bit of a favour...'

[perrymason]

When I fancied John McCarthy for the Kelly kill--and he is still not completely off my hook but he's almost wriggled free--I thought exactly that. McCarthy or someone else had paid or otherwise persuaded Hutchinson to give a particular description that would take the heat off him. Something like 'Hey Hutchinson, the filth are all over me on this Kelly murder because I'm her landlord. You know I would never do anything like that! But I don't need them prying into my private affairs, so if you could do me a bit of a favour...'

I wonder about someone closer to home Chava, with respect to Mary Jane.... We know that Hutchinson lived at the Victoria Home for Men, we also know that Flemming was a resident at that time, as was Daniel Barnett.

Those 2 men are certainly within Marys inner circle and could provide any information about her to allow someone to represent themselves as a "friend" of Marys.

My speculative sides vacillate between a spurned lover hiding his murder in blood and guts, or something much more speculative ....Marys knowledge of some dangerous people or activities planned that were illegal and very dangerous. That second one might explain an acomplice.

All the best Ms Chava.......and we got snow the day after we mentioned it here, so from now on, no mention of the stuff, ok?

Cheers

[Chava]

I wonder about someone closer to home Chava, with respect to Mary Jane.... We know that Hutchinson lived at the Victoria Home for Men, we also know that Flemming was a resident at that time, as was Daniel Barnett.

Those 2 men are certainly within Marys inner circle and could provide any information about her to allow someone to represent themselves as a "friend" of Marys.

My speculative sides vacillate between a spurned lover hiding his murder in blood and guts, or something much more speculative ....Marys knowledge of some dangerous people or activities planned that were illegal and very dangerous. That second one might explain an acomplice.

All the best Ms Chava.......and we got snow the day after we mentioned it here, so from now on, no mention of the stuff, ok?

Cheers

No problem Michael!

As for Kelly not being a JtR victim, I've been on the fence for years over that. She breaks the pattern in so many ways that I could absolutely believe she came to a sticky end via someone who needed to get rid of her and fake a Ripper kill. However she was seen with Blotchy-Face before she died. And his description matches the man who tried to kill Ada Wilson as well as someone seen with Eddowes, so I thinkk I"m sticking with Blotchy for the time being...

[perrymason]

No problem Michael!

As for Kelly not being a JtR victim, I've been on the fence for years over that. She breaks the pattern in so many ways that I could absolutely believe she came to a sticky end via someone who needed to get rid of her and fake a Ripper kill. However she was seen with Blotchy-Face before she died. And his description matches the man who tried to kill Ada Wilson as well as someone seen with Eddowes, so I thinkk I"m sticking with Blotchy for the time being...

Im a big fan of thorough scrutiny of the people last seen with the victims and so I agree with you that in this case, he looks to be a good candidate. Perhaps even for other attacks, as you suggest.

That would mean that he either bedded down with his intended victim for some time starting just before 1:30am, or he began killing her when she had stopped singing and her light went out, close to 1:30am. Thats according to Mary Ann as well as Prater. In those 2 scenarios, I dont see the first as being very plausible based on this reasoning, if his intention is to kill Mary, and he is the culprit in some other murders....that also lack "connection" evidence...then sex may have nothing to do with matters that night. So when she finishes singing and tries to get him to leave, he starts in on her. He may have her dead already before Prater climbs the stairs.

Then what woman calls out seemingly from Marys room at around 3:45am that 2 witnesses nearly adjacent to the room itself testified to? If Mary is alive at that time, its my opinion that Blotchy left somewhere around 1:25ish.

If Blotchy left, and somehow Elizabeth didnt notice him exit the courtyard onto the street...maybe he left 10 minutes earlier?.....then Wideawake becomes either the accomplice casing out the location, or the killer sussing out his opportunities.

I realize that viewing Kelly as other than a Ripper victim is difficult for most, I think because so much is made of the fact her torso is the target of most all of the mutilations for one reason, ....but we have circumstances in this case that dont exist in the other cases. Some real tangible differences in that murder. And an ongoing love triangle that we know about.

Cheers Chava