Jack had to slip up

[NOV9]

Hi Michael,

Are we to assume that the killer of Annie and the killer of Kate were completely different individuals since Annie's kidney was not removed and there were no slashes to her face. Furthermore, if we assign some romantic or emotional significance to Mary's heart being taken, what emotion or significance do we assign to Kate's kidney?

c.d.

Hi C.D.

When you were young, and you got into fist fights with some kid that was
Really annoying you. There is a moment that you felt real rage and wanted
To hurt him real bad.

Think about that when you see the killer in your mind, only his rage is uncontrollable to the point of murder and mutilation, it is not that he wants to control this rage, rather he enjoys it. And at that you can see him more clearly, than all the reading you have done about one.

There is nothing romantic about Jack, he lacks emotion, and he had no remorse about what he did.

Jack was able to walk among the people of Whitechapel and would seem as normal as any one else, until something triggers his rage.

He was a wolf in sheep clothing.

Jack was not capable of love, his only love if that is what you want to believe, was for himself.

Copy cat killings were not uncommon, it helps other killers to blame it on the Ripper.

[c.d.]

Hi Michael,

Are we to assume that the killer of Annie and the killer of Kate were completely different individuals since Annie's kidney was not removed and there were no slashes to her face. Furthermore, if we assign some romantic or emotional significance to Mary's heart being taken, what emotion or significance do we assign to Kate's kidney?

c.d.

[paul emmett]

Hi all,

Actually Paul if he was a copycat he was an extremely capable one, because he has fooled many thousands by now. Mary had many things performed upon her, many things that were strictly to injure or further maim a corpse...but some acts did have resonance with Ripper acts.

In keeping with the thread title, I think Marys killer slipped up when he took the heart. Whatever role the uterus had played with the Ripper up until that point was dismissed. The uterus being the only organ both Annie and Kate, lost to a greater and lesser degree.. respectively. Perhaps that is most troubling to the believers of a sexual serial predator named Jack, and that he killed Mary Kelly, ... is that point.

Hello Michael,

Admitted, he has fooled MANY thousands, but isn't another point to the womb/heart issue that the killer isn't interested in copying. You can hardly take a heart by mistake. If one wants to be like Jack, one takes a uterus--or at least a kidney. Along with your closing question, can't we just as well ask: if ya want to be JTR why not take Kelly's uterus; it's already cut out of her?

Have a good day,
Paul

Hi all,

Actually Paul if he was a copycat he was an extremely capable one, because he has fooled many thousands by now. Mary had many things performed upon her, many things that were strictly to injure or further maim a corpse...but some acts did have resonance with Ripper acts.

In keeping with the thread title, I think Marys killer slipped up when he took the heart. Whatever role the uterus had played with the Ripper up until that point was dismissed. The uterus being the only organ both Annie and Kate, lost to a greater and lesser degree.. respectively. Perhaps that is most troubling to the believers of a sexual serial predator named Jack, and that he killed Mary Kelly, ... is that point. Why would a killer who symbolically has dealt exclusively with the region from thigh to breastbone of women....taking specifically womens reproductive organs from 2 of the three with organs taken, suddenly fixates on an organ which could symbolize connections,or loss, of Love, Life, ..a persons Soul, but not anything remotely gender specific.

So is Jack now just killing any homo sapien, the fact that they are women meaning less as he continues his mad rage against the unfairness of fistulas, or having a whore for a Mother, or a bitch for a wife.......

Until you start really thinking about what he takes...and I dont mean just assuming he likes trophies,...far to dismissive, since we know that these female reproductive organs were at some point solicited before the rampage from Teaching Hospitals, at least one virtually authenticated the claim,... they were used in East European/Germanic rituals, and I know of one Doctor who implanted uteri into rich people in London during that period to "live forever/gain immortality".....then a change in organs becomes very significant when attributing Mary to the same killer as Kate and Annie.

If Jack the Ripper wanted uteri, then why leave Marys, when its already cut out of her.

My best regards all.

[paul emmett]

someone Mary knows, that is not Jack used his ID from the papersto copy cat the murder.

Hi NOV9,

We had that great thread, right before the crash, on MJK: copycat? And, of course, the results were multiple. Some used the many numerous differences in the MJK crime scene to try to prove the killer wasn't JTR. I'm not sure if I agree with that, but I do think that if the killer is a copycat, he's about the world's worst.

[Sam Flynn]

And I hope that what I'm typing is not to be taken as lecturing

Not in the slightest, Nov

[NOV9]

Hi Nov 9,

I meant he could make his exit that way not his entrance.

As to M.O., can one based on only three or four previous murders be written in stone? I think the circumstances dictated his actions. My opinion.

c.d.

Hi again,

When I say that Jack would not rush in to the room with a knife in hand,I
mean that he does not have to.

There is no reason why he would go to Mary's
room, which is why I'm saying that Jack would not do that, what I'm trying to
say is someone Mary knows, that is not Jack used his ID from the papers
to copy cat the murder.

I know this will not sit well with some, but look at it closeup something is
out of place with Mary's kill.

[NOV9]

She may well have done, if the witness testimony (the cry of "Murder!") and medical evidence (cuts to back of hands inflicted whilst Mary was still alive) is anything to go by. If so, he appears to have finished her off pretty quickly - in a "raptor-like" fashion, if you like
I'm not so sure he wouldn't have - assuming anybody would have disturbed him at between 3 and 4 in the morning.

Hey Sam,

Raptor type is not in ref to fashion it is a term used to describe a fast kill.

Sam, it is hard to explain the mind of Jack without really exposing whom
I think he is.

The important part is Jack would go where there is game, selecting a crime area is the first choice for a successful kill.

That is a fail-safe he would not
Violate, Jack was not a man who would take risk. He was a serious killer.

It must include a reasonable access and a decent prospect for evading capture.

Evading capture. Means more to him than all the pleasure of the kill.

Sam I have a lot of respect for your insight on this site, it is really refreshing.
And I hope that what I'm typing is not to be taken as lecturing, I apologize
If it is taken that way.


here is a quote from Boyd.

We were just hunting humans, I guess because we thought they were the hardest things to hunt,
But humans are the easiest things to hunt… sad to say, but it’s true.

Boyd--Convicted Canadian
Murderer; 1998

[Sam Flynn]

what if the door were locked and Mary screamed, and began to fight him off?

She may well have done, if the witness testimony (the cry of "Murder!") and medical evidence (cuts to back of hands inflicted whilst Mary was still alive) is anything to go by. If so, he appears to have finished her off pretty quickly - in a "raptor-like" fashion, if you like

Jack would not rush through the door with a knife in hand.

I'm not so sure he wouldn't have - assuming anybody would have disturbed him at between 3 and 4 in the morning.

[c.d.]

Hi Nov 9,

I meant he could make his exit that way not his entrance.

As to M.O., can one based on only three or four previous murders be written in stone? I think the circumstances dictated his actions. My opinion.

c.d.

[NOV9]

Hi Nov 9,

But what if the desire to have the time to mutilate at will overroad that cleverness? Jack could have been fairly confident that he would not be disturbed given the lateness of the hour and assurances from Mary. As to an escape route, I would think that Jack rushing through the door with a knife in his hand would enable him to get away.

c.d.

But what if the desire to have the time to mutilate at will overroad that cleverness?


Hi c.d.

Jack was a clever killer.

Jack would not rush through the door with a knife in hand.

what if the door were locked and Mary screamed, and began to fight him off?
Again this was not his M.O. Jack was a Raptor type killer. not a crazy man.

[c.d.]

I'm trying to set some thoughts as to how Jack happened on to Mary.
One has to see how a crime such as Jack's is thought out.

From the bodily outline drawn on the surface of the scene of the crime….
What progressively emerges is the outline shape of the killer
--Seltzer 1998

The ripper crimes happen quickly and are over in minutes.
Jack was a Raptor type killer.
Decreasing his risk of getting caught, Jack prefers to remain close to escape routes,
And avoid targets that are situated too far into private space.

Jack would go where there is game, selecting a crime area is the first choice for a successful kill.
It must include a reasonable access and a decent prospect for evading capture.

Attacks outdoors in an area very well know by the killer, then the victim is selected by
Circumstances in which she becomes available to Jack and vulnerable to the attack.

Jack commits crimes in neighborhoods he personally knows well or that are very similar in
Physical, social, and economic characteristic to his home neighborhoods.
His knowledge of access to, and departure from the scene affects his target choices.
He may get a rush from the possibility of getting caught, but he would not conner himself in.
A personal space, without an escape route.

I do not believe that jack was a disorganized offender, so I will eliminate the psychosis killer.

Mary’s resident violates Jack’s M.O. there is no escape route and a light outside the door, with Mary’s
Friends coming by at will, or Joe coming by or perhaps McCarthy coming by to collect rent.
To many possibly of getting caught with no escape.
Jack was too clever for that.

Hi Nov 9,

But what if the desire to have the time to mutilate at will overroad that cleverness? Jack could have been fairly confident that he would not be disturbed given the lateness of the hour and assurances from Mary. As to an escape route, I would think that Jack rushing through the door with a knife in his hand would enable him to get away.

c.d.

[Chava]

Oh, but we can Chava! Maybe not McCarthy as such, but there are plenty of others, and it's perfectly legitimate to say "I don't think so-and-so did it..." as long as the reasoning makes sense and the argument sticks to the facts objectively wherever possible

I agree. But we have to be able to back up those statements with reasonable arguments. Even then I don't think we can really completely rule out anyone. Look at GH. I personally think he's an attention-seeker who made the whole thing up for the prospect of a few free drinks. But that's just what I think, not what I know. There are a whole bunch of people who think he did it and I won't contradict them because I can't. I could say 'well he came forward and is unlikely to have done so if he was the killer because that would be putting himself in the frame...' But it's not a definitive argument. It's not 'it couldn't be him because Sarah Lewis saw him standing out in the cold and brought him in and gave him a cup of tea and they chatted until 8.30 am when they both went out and had breakfast'.

(GH-fanciers, that was just an example! Please don't argue him here!!)

[NOV9]

Jack had to slip

I'm trying to set some thoughts as to how Jack happened on to Mary.
One has to see how a crime such as Jack's is thought out.

From the bodily outline drawn on the surface of the scene of the crime….
What progressively emerges is the outline shape of the killer
--Seltzer 1998

The ripper crimes happen quickly and are over in minutes.
Jack was a Raptor type killer.
Decreasing his risk of getting caught, Jack prefers to remain close to escape routes,
And avoid targets that are situated too far into private space.

Jack would go where there is game, selecting a crime area is the first choice for a successful kill.
It must include a reasonable access and a decent prospect for evading capture.

Attacks outdoors in an area very well know by the killer, then the victim is selected by
Circumstances in which she becomes available to Jack and vulnerable to the attack.

Jack commits crimes in neighborhoods he personally knows well or that are very similar in
Physical, social, and economic characteristic to his home neighborhoods.
His knowledge of access to, and departure from the scene affects his target choices.
He may get a rush from the possibility of getting caught, but he would not conner himself in.
A personal space, without an escape route.

I do not believe that jack was a disorganized offender, so I will eliminate the psychosis killer.

Mary’s resident violates Jack’s M.O. there is no escape route and a light outside the door, with Mary’s
Friends coming by at will, or Joe coming by or perhaps McCarthy coming by to collect rent.
To many possibly of getting caught with no escape.
Jack was too clever for that.

[Blackkat]

Chave,

Thanks for pointing that out. I was reading all the posts (so many!) and my eyes just swapped stuff. I corrected it. Thank you!

Anna, that was your good point.