who was the real MJK??

[WARSPITE]

i would really like to know all the myths, stories, gossip and anything else related to MJK. and is there any photos of her, before her death? even ones that are suspected to be of her.
its well known that MJK was a fighter and could handle herself in an argument with any a punter or mouthy rival prostitute, but is it true the rumour i've heard that she could knock out a cart hourse with one punch?

Hi Mary Jane, its an honour to meet you!
Having worked in A&E several years,dealing with a wide range of people,including homeless,alcoholics etc, painful as it is to say it,with the greatest respect,I suspect MK's daily struggle for survival and lifestyle would be taking its toll on any natural beauty she possessed. I see it so often,and things must have been worse in 1888.

Those wounds were categorized as possible defense wounds Kensei, so......

Mary Jane, you point out some things that lead me to surmise that the cry of "oh-murder" wasnt likely a start point of her attack...as she was fully conscious and verbal if it was her that made the cry out. Leaving being startled or annoyed as 2 very possible reasons for the phrasing.

Its written in some reports as "oh-murder", like it was 2 distinct beats...perhaps the volume on the second beat is where we might learn her reasons for the phrase and inflection.

I believe she was attacked while semi-sleeping, or that her airway was restricted by the killer....the only real problem with the second one is how exactly do you slash at someone who has their arm blocking their face and neck and still keep them silent? That might mean there was noise...but after those awake in the courtyard have nodded off.

Best regards MJ

[Mitch Rowe]

LVP = "Late Victorian Period" - a vernacular expression of the latter half of the 19th Century, meaning "an early sign of a possible pregnancy"

LOL.. Thanks for the laugh Sam!

[kensei]

I've never seen the wounds on Mary Jane's left arm as being defensive wounds. They look too extensive for that, too much flesh torn away for it to have occurred in a struggle. I think that is just one more area where the Ripper decided to cut pieces away after she was dead.

The story of her knocking out a horse with one punch? Sorry, but that's just silly. Reminds me of "Blazing Saddles," or "Conan the Barbarian" in which Arnold Schwarzenegger did it to a camel.

Mary Kelly had red (or at least "reddish") hair, described by some as "ginger," but not flaming orange like Heather Gramm in "From Hell." She would have been considered very attractive by the standards of the time, but perhaps average by those of today. I think that anyone who tracks down artist Jane Coram's renditions of the Ripper victims will see a fairly accurate (though largely speculative) image of her.

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

Hi Mary Jane,

The other Mary Jane had wounds on her left forearm and hand that were thought to have been caused by her making a defensive gesture with that arm. The top sheet, near the upper right hand corner, also had slashes in it. Some had supposed that she had a sheet pulled over her face during the attack.

The one thing that seems clear is that she was at least semi-conscious when the attack started.

Best regards.

hello perrymason,

so did she fight her attacker? or did she just put her arms infront of her face? if she was semi-conscious at the time of the attack then maby she was'nt capable of fighting her attacker, instead just protecting her face with her arms which is instinctive. and if she was'nt capable of fighting then she probably was'nt capable of much speech, let alone shouting ''OH! MURDER!''. so i wonder who did shout that? or was it just a fabricated tale made up from a couple of people for some cheap fame, and maby a bit of money from the papers from the selling of their stories?


---MJK---

what defence wounds did she have?? x

---MJK---

Hi Mary Jane,

The other Mary Jane had wounds on her left forearm and hand that were thought to have been caused by her making a defensive gesture with that arm. The top sheet, near the upper right hand corner, also had slashes in it. Some had supposed that she had a sheet pulled over her face during the attack.

The one thing that seems clear is that she was at least semi-conscious when the attack started.

Best regards.

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

the defence wounds on her hands[if the body found [ popular theory] was indeed her].

what defence wounds did she have?? x

---MJK---

[gypsy]

being born in london and spending most of my mis-spent youth around the east end, during the 1960s the popular view of MJK is one and the same of prostitutes today. Times may have changed but the game and those in it don't.To even be in that profession if you are not tough,you soon will be. If more intensive alternative research regarding the lives, habits history,and known characters of Londons 1880s "Daughters Of Joy" was complete, i'm sure we will certainly be closer to the identity of Jack The ripper. So in answer to the question,maybe she may have lacked the punch of a heavyweight,but demonstrated a serious degree of grit,purely by the defence wounds on her hands[if the body found [ popular theory] was indeed her].

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

I'd like to think that she looked like this....

i have read that book, it was a good story but i dont think it held any real truth. x

--MJK---

[The Grave Maurice]

I'd like to think that she looked like this....

I have to say that its a bit disconcerting to see a post from Mary Jane Kelly. I know others have taken names from the cases as a nomme de plume, has anyone used Marys in full like this before?

Nothing wrong with it at all....Im just a bit thrown seeing for the first time her full name posting on a Mary Jane Kelly thread.

Best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

what does LVP mean??

LVP = "Late Victorian Period" - a vernacular expression of the latter half of the 19th Century, meaning "an early sign of a possible pregnancy"

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

Hello Mary Jane Kelly!

She could really have been a well-noticed figure in the contemporary photos for the following reason; she was 5'7" (that is 170,28 centimeters). In another words: as tall as an average LVP man!

However; if one wants to look for a possible photo, she was still probably "a tall gal in the crowd", not being noticed at the time!

What it comes to knocking a cart-horse with one punch, I think, it's part of the mythology around her reputation of being good in self-defence!

All the best
Jukka

hello jukka.

what does LVP mean?? i have seen some photos of 'tall gals' but looking for MJK is probably like looking for a needle in a haystack hahaha.

---MJK---

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Mary Jane Kelly!

She could really have been a well-noticed figure in the contemporary photos for the following reason; she was 5'7" (that is 170,28 centimeters). In another words: as tall as an average LVP man!

However; if one wants to look for a possible photo, she was still probably "a tall gal in the crowd", not being noticed at the time!

What it comes to knocking a cart-horse with one punch, I think, it's part of the mythology around her reputation of being good in self-defence!

All the best
Jukka

[Mary_Jane_Kelly]

Hi MJK.

There are no images of MJK alive. As we don't even know her true name for certain, there never will be.

You need to search out Chris Scott's book WILL THE REAL MARY KELLY?

PHILIP

hey George H,
i know there are no 100% certain phographs of her alive, but there are photographs that could be her or are rumoured to be of her. she was, by descriptions of people who knew her, a distinguishable charecter.
im also very interested in her personality and stories about her, like the knocking out the cart horse with one punch.
this book 'will the real mary kelly?' chris scott sounds interesting, could i get it from all major book shops??
thanks.

---MJK---