The Night She Died

[Robert]

I've given up on Kelly's photo, Stephen, since I can see bugger all in it. Are you sure it's a blanket, and neatly folded?

[Stephen Thomas]

I don't go along with the sexual killer idea, it seems to me to work best if you just have Jack walking in while Kelly's asleep. I don't see the point of having him watch her undress.

Hi Robert

Yes, but how would you explain the photo evidence that Kelly's over-blanket was neatly folded at the foot of the bed?

On a cold November night.

[Robert]

A florin? That's six times a night.

[Sam Flynn]

Absolutely agreed, Robert. Though I'd argue that the above works just as well for the "sexual serial killer" premise.

... what about "strawberry-flavoured killer", chaps? See how utterly pointless these labels are...? "Killer" is good enough for me.

Anyhoo - back on thread. Sort of. Re the "indoor job": according to Sarah Wise in her thoroughly splendid book The Blackest Streets (buy it, folks - it's superb), she puts the price of an "all-nighter" with an East End prostitute at 2 shillings. She doesn't state from where she got that nugget of info, which is always a bit dodgy in my view, but it doesn't sound too outlandish. Wise's research focused on the worst parts of the East End, more specifically the streets around The Nichol - so if that 2s is based on "Nichol" prices, then it might not be too far off what Kelly, Cox and Prater might have expected in return for offering the equivalent service in Dorset Street.

[Ben]

although I don't go along with the sexual killer idea, it seems to me to work best if you just have Jack walking in while Kelly's asleep

Absolutely agreed, Robert.

Though I'd argue that the above works just as well for the "sexual serial killer" premise.

[BillieHoliday]

Even the Yorkshire ripper feigned sexual interest with one of his victims before killing her.

I'm not saying Jack would have enjoyed the striptease but he would have enjoyed stringing Mary along, making her think he was a normal punter.

As for her being undressed, she only stripped down to her chemise so she wasn't totally naked, so at this point I wouldn't expect a client to get naked himself.

[Robert]

Just to add : although I don't go along with the sexual killer idea, it seems to me to work best if you just have Jack walking in while Kelly's asleep. I don't see the point of having him watch her undress.

[Robert]

Hi Bailey

If you go down the sexual killer path - a path I'm dubious about, myself - but if you go down that path, surely another factor enters in : desperation. If he was a sexual killer, we would have to imagine him murdering Nichols, and deciding that he liked it so much that he wanted to do it again. This he does 8 days later, and on a far greater scale, with Chapman. Then there's a lull - he may have been out of circulation, or he may have been unsuccessful with his prowling - but for whatever reason, there's a lull until Sept 30th, when he unleashes his pent-up desires on Eddowes. (If you count Stride as a victim, the sexual desperation is all the more evident, for he kills two in one night. But counting Stride isn't compulsory) Then there's an even longer lull. Imagine his desperation at this point. This makes it difficult to believe that having at last got a woman where he wanted her, he would be content to watch Mary undress, and even let her lie down, so that he had to kill her from the "wrong" side.

[Bailey]

My problem with the 'pay to spend the night' scenario is that, once in the room, he let her undress before he killed her. I just don't see the point of that. It wastes time. And he would probably have to get undressed as well so as not to provoke suspicion, and then where does he hide his knife?! Get her indoors and kill her immediately you have the privacy to do so! That makes sense. But let her undress...? If you want her naked, kill her and undress her. It's not as if he's disturbed by the sight of blood.

Surely that depends on his mindset - after all, anticipation is always fun. I'm sure many of us have been in a situation where we watched a partner get undressed as pre-foreplay, and if the bloke was in fact paying for the Luxury All-Night Indoor Mary Jane Experience, a wee striptease to begin with isn't inconceivable.

Of course, perhaps I'm thinking too much in terms of sexual serial murder, but to someone of that mindset, watching his partner undress would - I imagine - be the same thrill whether the plan once she was naked was sex or murder.

As for it being a waste of time - well, isn't the point of buying the all night indoor experience that you have time to waste? If (and I say "if" because I'm pondering, not advocating) he was a client who had paid (or proposed to pay) for an all nighter indoors rather than a quickie in an alley, all of this is consistent with his plans, be they sex or violence - inside, warm, comfy and with time enough to enjoy the whole event from striptease to whatever climax he had in mind, rather than the Wham, bam, thank you, Ma'am of a four penny knee trembler or the previous murders.

B.

B.

[Robert]

Exactly, Chava.

[Chava]

My problem with the 'pay to spend the night' scenario is that, once in the room, he let her undress before he killed her. I just don't see the point of that. It wastes time. And he would probably have to get undressed as well so as not to provoke suspicion, and then where does he hide his knife?! Get her indoors and kill her immediately you have the privacy to do so! That makes sense. But let her undress...? If you want her naked, kill her and undress her. It's not as if he's disturbed by the sight of blood.

[Ben]

Hi LadyG,

But someone willing to plunk down a much bigger sum?

It does seem rather unlikely, though, that Kelly's client-base would consist of (m)any people who were in a position to stump up for much bigger sums. The advantage of alleyways over rooms to my mind is the fact that a prostitute was in a position to service clients (and thus earn money) as a faster rate than if she was spending considerable time in her room. This had the added advantage of her sheets not being sullied by a less-than-frangrant stranger.

[LadyG]

Less risk for girls if they bring clients to an area they 'control', that their pimp or friends are familiar with, watching the place-- none of this needs to be proven to the john, it would be enough for a client to believe based on what he is told; it's the place she shares with other girls, or belongs to another person, etc. For a 4 penny thrill, who would bother-- the alley works fine. But someone willing to plunk down a much bigger sum? Besides, it costs extra if you want the lady to disrobe, and she's not about to do that in the alley.

[BillieHoliday]

Hi Chava, I never thought of that situation but yes you're right, that could have been the way it went.

[Chava]

I believe Blotchy Face had bought Kelly drinks all night at the pub. I think he expected a very nice 'thank you' for all his generosity and his escorting her home. Transactions like that go on all over town all the time, among women who would sue if you called them a prostitute. If he was a genuine punter, in other words, if she had said ''allo darling! Wanna go on a date? Cost yer 6d' and he said 'yes' then he was a punter. And would expect service for the money which he would have paid upfront. (I gather that rule #1 in Whore School is get the money upfront.) It's a little different if he's just bought her drinks and expects a happy ending to the evening. She hasn't been paid money and if she wants to sing for an hour, she can do as she damn' well pleases. I expect he realized his mistake and got out of there within 10 minutes.