Millers Court and 26 Dorset Street - 1881 and 1891

[Chris Scott]

The McCarthys lived at and ran their business from 27 Dorset Street, to the left of the entrance to Millers Court
Chris

[Judroo]

Census info

Looking at the Census info,there seems to be no mention of the McCarthy family. I'd always assumed that they lived 'over the shop' in Dorset Street, b
but apparently not. Do we know where they lived?

Jud

[claire]

Possibly the census listing was none too scrupulous and some of those listed as living in the same number actually occupied different rooms

The Lord only knows how much fun and games an enumerator would have had with the good folk of Millers Court.
'Are you going to open your door, madam?'
'Nah, goowon, bugger off. Wonave no law rahnd ear.'
'I'm the census enumerator, madam.'
'An I dahn' care if yer the queenaringlund, i tolja, bugger off.'

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

If you have a Mac, simply CTRL-Click on the image and save it to the desktop.

If you have a PC, sell it for scrap and buy a Mac.

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

Just a quick question, perhaps Chris might know?
How can we take a snapshot of the pdf file from these census lists?, as Chris provided in post #5.

thanks, Jon.S.

[Sam Flynn]

There are a number of possibilities
1) Some numbered rooms from Millers Court are not listed
Nos 1, 4, 9, 10, 14 upwards.
Possibly the census listing was none too scrupulous and some of those listed as living in the same number actually occupied different rooms

That sounds the simplest explanation, Chris, and perhaps the most likely.

I think it's likely that they were including a lower room and a room above it as one dwelling

...which complements Chris's suggestion perfectly.

[Chava]

I think it's likely that they were including a lower room and a room above it as one dwelling because they couldn't be bothered to innumerate properly. I can't remember which room Mary Ann Cox occupied--I think it was #5--but it sounded as though she lived alone, and none of these women could have afforded enough space to have a family living with them.

[Chris Scott]

Hi
This came up recently on one of the podcasts
There are definitely 6 people, three different households, listed as living at No 13 Millers Court in 1891
I agree it is unfeasible for a married couple in their 30s, a widowed woman and her brother, and another widow and her young son all the be living in a 12 foot room
There are a number of possibilities
1) Some numbered rooms from Millers Court are not listed
Nos 1, 4, 9, 10, 14 upwards.
Possibly the census listing was none too scrupulous and some of those listed as living in the same number actually occupied different rooms
2) There may have been some internal reorganisation of the rooms. As speculation, the partiton wall of No 13 may have been extended into the storage area to allow more rentable floor space - this is speculation only, however

I think it unlikely we will ever know the exact domestic arrangements and the best we can do is informed guesswork

Below is the page from 1891 for the bulk of Millers Court and you will see the six persons listed as living at No 13 at the bottom of the page
Chris

[Chava]

Chris, what's with the multiple heads of households? Surely 13 Millers Court (for example) didn't have room for all those people? I know the conditions were overcrowded, but they weren't that overcrowded, were they? I'm obviously missing something here.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Jon
Thanks for the message
Also re. the same couple, Julia Venturney said she lived with a man named Harry Owen
Chris

[Jon Guy]

Thanks Chris, interesting

I`m assuming that "Lottie" from the Kit Watkins post is the same Lottie as below :

26 Dorset Street in 1891

Head: Henry Owen aged 49 born St Pancras - Dock labourer
Wife: Lottie Owen aged 43 born Kennington

[Chris Scott]

I think these listings may have got lost in the crash of the boards so I am reposting full listings in 1881 and 1891 for Millers Court and 26 Dorset Street
Chris

Millers Court 1881

1 Millers Court
Head: Charles Green aged 34 born Stepney - Labourer
Wife: Mary A Green aged 29 born Shoreditch
Boarders:
Robert Brown aged 21 born Chobham - Hawker
Louisa Wood aged 20 born Blackfriars

2 Millers Court
Head: Alfred Smith aged 44 born Bethnal Green - Butcher
Wife: Elizabeth Smith aged 39 born Hounslow
Daughter: Mary Ann aged 11 born Mile End
Boarders:
William Whitehead aged 18 born Southampton - Hawker
Emma Polard aged 17 born Middlesex
Alfred Whitehead aged 16 born Southampton

3 Millers Court
Boarders:
Barney Lipman aged 21 born Middlesex - Fish porter
Sophia Palmer aged 27 born Cambridgeshire
Thomas Carey aged 27 born Bromley - Labourer
Annie Shay aged 20 born India
Nelly Shay aged 17 born India - Boot binder

4 Millers Court
Head: Lawrence McDonald aged 22 born Bethnal Green - Labourer in gas factory
Wife: Sarah McDonald aged 27 born Kings Cross

Head: Eliza Carlsin (Widow) aged 40 born Dublin
Children:
Kate aged 12 born Spitalfields
Charles James aged 10 months born Spitalfields

5 Millers Court
Head: Cornelius Hoaks aged 23 born Spitalfields - Hawker
Wife: Agnes Hoaks aged 21 born Spitalfields

Head: Elizabeth James aged 36 born Kent - Needlewoman
Boarder:
Alfred B Knight aged 3 months born Spitalfields

6 Millers Court
Head: Frederick Smith aged 41 born Clerkenwell - Gold beater
Wife: Ellen Smith aged 38 born Clerkenwell - Laundress

Head: Edward Tagg aged 36 born Clerkenwell - Glass blower
Wife: Sarah A Tagg aged 36 born Dublin
Children:
Cecilia aged 16 born Camberwell
Thomas aged 15 born Blackfriars

26 Dorset Street in 1881:
Head: John Death aged 25 born Mile End - Umbrella frame maker
Wife: Alice Death aged 24 born Blackfriars
Children:
John William aged 5 born Spitalfields
Emma aged 3 born Birmingham
Joseph A aged 2 born London

Head: Henry Pound aged 37 born Mile End - Bricklayer
Wife: Ann Pound aged 34 born Spitalfields - Dressmaker

Head: William Jones aged 32 born London - Boot and shoe maker
Wife: Janey Jones aged 27 born Poplar - Washerwoman

Head: George Wood aged 40 born Lambeth - Carman
Wife: Janey Wood aged 42 born Scotland

Head: Thomas Paine aged 28 born Epping - Fish smoker
Wife: Kate Paine aged 35 born Epping - Stay maker


Millers Court 1891

2 Millers Court
Head: Solomon Shrimsky aged 25 born City - Costermonger
Boarder: Emily Weiss aged 24 born Finsbury - Charwoman

Head: Lilian Reardon (Widow) aged 37 born Westminster
Son: Charles J Reardon aged 10 born Pimlico

Head: Patrick Coulan aged 39 born Ireland - Shoemaker
Wife: Alice Coulan aged 29 born Chelsea
Children:
Bernard aged 8 born Blackfriars
Alfred aged 4 born Blackfriars
Michael aged 1 week born Shoreditch

3 Millers Court
Head: Joseph Wadham aged 61 - Dock labourer
Wife: Mary A Wadham aged 58
Son: John aged 16
All born in Bethnal Green

5 Millers Court
Head: John Payne aged 42 born Bishopsgate - Porter
Wife: Jane E Payne aged 38 born Shoreditch
Son: John aged 4 born Shoreditch

Head: George Southey aged 36 born Islington - Gas stoker
Wife: Elibeth (sic) Southey aged 31 born Aberdeen
Children:
George aged 14 born Haggerston
Frederick aged 8 born Kingsland

Head: Henry Hooker aged 42 born Shoreditch - Stick dresser
Wife: Clara E Hooker aged 35 born lambeth - Matchbox maker
Son: William F aged 16 born Shoreditch - Van boy
Visitor: Eliza Wilson (Widow) aged 40 born Lambeth - Fancy trimmer

6 Millers Court
Head: Thomas North aged 34 born Pimlico - Boiler maker
Wife: Sarah North aged 26 born Penge, Surrey - Charwoman
Visitor: Katherine Durand aged 24 born Westminster - Charwoman

7 Millers Court
Head: Elizabeth Norman (Widow) aged 34 born London - Needlewoman

Head: Matilda Merriton aged 46 born St George East

8 Millers Court
Head: Mary A Jeffrey (Widow) aged 53 born Bandon, Cork - Charwoman
Son: Edward aged 23 born Whitechapel - Carman

11 Millers Court
Head: Mary A Griffin aged 19 born Stepney - Ropemaker's assistant

12 Millers Court
Head: William Harrison aged 65 born Lambeth - Wire worker
Wife: Mary A Harrison aged 65 born Cornwall

Head: Edward Childs aged 35 born Islington - Hawker
Wife: Jane Childs aged 32 born Islington -

13 Millers Court
Head: Thomas Kelly aged 35 born Spitalfields - Waterside labourer
Wife: Ann Kelly aged 39 born Ireland

Head: Elizabeth Harper (Widow) aged 39 born Wapping - Needlewoman
Brother: James Harper aged 42 born Finsbury - Firewood bundle maker

Head: Mary A Clark (Widow) aged 49 born Lancashire - Laundress
Son: Charles aged 13 born Hornsey


26 Dorset Street in 1891

Head: Henry Owen aged 49 born St Pancras - Dock labourer
Wife: Lottie Owen aged 43 born Kennington