I was only able to get page 1 out of 3 pages of this thread, but figured something is better than nothing.... The image in one or more posts below, like all these recoveries, could not be restored.
Occupants of Miller's Rents and Miller's Court
1st April 2007, 06:59 PM
Sam Flynn
Commissioner
Hi all,
Thought I'd try to picture, as best I could, the shifting population of what eventually became known as "Miller's Court" from 1861 onwards. Having established that the place was known as "Miller's Rents" in 1851, I tried to track backwards, but to no avail. This is primarily due to no premise numbers, or "minor names" for groups of houses, being given in the 1841 Census. We only have a "slab" of households who lived along Dorset Street and its various tributaries.
However, the 1841 Census does show a cooper by the name of Frederick Miller, his wife Sarah and a family of 5 children occupying one house on Dorset St. There is also a Matthew Miller and wife Alice living there at the same time, however his humble calling of "cordwainer" (a low cobbler), not to mention his age (60) suggests that he wouldn't have been a landlord renting out a large number of rooms by 1851.
Could Frederick Miller, the barrel-maker, have been the originator of the name "Miller's Court". It's interesting to note that a cooper, John Nale (or Vale), was one of the first tenants, living in 2 Miller's Rents in 1851. Details of that Census, and those up to 1871, are given below.
Please note that the 1881 and 1891 Census returns have already been posted elsewhere on these boards, so I won't go over them again here.
1851 Census
1 Miller's Rents
Michael Regan (Head), 41, Musical String Maker, b. Whitechapel
Catherine (Wife), 34, b. Whitechapel
James (Son), 7, b. Whitechapel
Mary (Daur), 5, b. Whitechapel
Ellen (Daur), 3, b. Whitechapel
2 Miller's Rents
Jone Nale (Head), 40, Cooper, b. Middx
Charlotte (Wife), 39, b. Middx
Celia (Daur), 10, b. Middx
Mary (Daur), 1, b. Middx
3 Miller's Rents
Thomas Rigby (Head), 25, Coal Porter, b. Bethnal Green
Sarah Ann (Wife), 24, b. Borough
Thomas George (Son), 1, b. Spitalfields
1861 Census
5 & 6 Miller's court
Unoccupied
4 Miller's Court
Wolf Jacob (Head), 42, Glazier, b. Poland
Paulina (Wife), 35, b. Poland
Abraham (Son), 11, b. City of London
Caroline (Daur), 9, Scholar, b. City of London
Rachel (Daur), 7, Scholar, b. City of London
Anna (Daur), 5, b. City of London
Hyman Raphael (Lodger), 23, Glazier, b. Poland
3 Miller's Court
Barnett Marks (Head), 31, Slipper Maker, b. Poland
Rachael (Wife), 27, Slipper Maker, b. Prussia
Sarah (Daur), 2, b. Spitalfields
Gustave (Son), 6 months, b. Spitalfields
2 Miller's Court
Emanuel Abrahams (Head), 25, Glazier, b. Poland
Selma (Wife), 30, b. Germany
1 Miller's Court
Unoccupied
1871 Census
6 Miller's Court
Isaac Hyams (Head), 32, Tailor, b. ???
Sarah (Wife), 36, Tailor
Ester (Daur), 20, Cape Maker
Annie (Daur), 16, Tailoress
??? (Son), 10, Scholar
Jacob (Son), 6
Leah (Daur), 1, b. Spitalfields
Joseph [Davis?] (Head), 69, General Dealer, b. Shalford, Essex
Esther (Wife), 60, b. Spitalfields
Isaac (Son), 12, Cigar Maker, b. Spitalfields
5 Miller's Court
Morris Browne (Head), 40, Glazier, b. Poland
Caroline (Wife), 20, b. Poland
Rebecca (Daur), 7, Scholar, b. Middlesex
Sarah (Daur), 4, Scholar, b. Middlesex
Davis (Son), 6 months, b. Middlesex
4 Miller's Court
Abraham Levy (Head), 23, Shoemaker, b. Poland
Rachel (Wife), 23, b. Poland
Samuel (Son), 3, Scholar, b. Poland
Solomon Rosenberg (Lodger), 20, Cigar Maker, b. Poland
Davis Rosenberg (Lodger), 23, Cigar Maker, b. Poland
Mark Rosenberg (Lodger), 23, Cigar Maker, b. Poland
3 Miller's Court
Abraham [Shillingdyke?] (Head), 34, Glazier, b. Poland
Sarah (Wife), 35, b. Poland
Israel (Son), 10, Scholar, b. Poland
Woolf (Son), 7, b. Poland
Jacob (Son), 7, b. Scholar, Poland
????? (Daur), 5, Scholar, b. Spitalfields
???? Samuels (Lodger), 20, Glazier, b. Poland, Deaf
2 Miller's Court
Davis Bernstein (Head), 45, Tailor, b. Poland
Annett[?] (Wife), 26, b. Poland
Betsy (Daur), 9[?], Hat Maker, b. Poland
Sarah (Daur), 7, b. Spitalfields
Jacob Marks (Visitor), 21, Boot Finisher, b. Poland
Solomon Black (Head), 40, Glazier, b. Poland
Rebecca (Wife), 32, b. Poland
Rachel (Daur), 15, Scholar, b. Poland
Leah (Daur), 12, Scholar, b. Poland
Sarah (Daur), 8[?], Scholar, b. Poland
Jacob (Son), 1, b. Spitalfields
1 Miller's Court
Morris Friedman (Head), 26, Boot Finisher, b. Poland
Sarah (Wife), 24, b. Poland
Rebecca (Daur), 6, Scholar, b. Spitalfields
Louis (Son), 2, b. Spitalfields
... what's interesting to note is that the premises become more and more crowded as the years go by, as well as bearing witness to an evident influx of Polish immigrants over a period of two decades from sometime in the 1850s to the 1870s. As the 1881 and 1891 Censuses testify, these Eastern European families - primarily Jews - were to move out of Miller's Court over the next two decades, perhaps in search of something better.
__________________
Sam Flynn
"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung)
.
.
.
5th April 2007, 03:46 PM
Stephen Thomas
Chief Inspector
Thanks very much for that, Sam. It does seem odd that the court was Jewish for maybe 20 years then reverted back to being Gentile by 1881. Perhaps the Jewish families were 'encouraged' to leave or maybe the area just got too rough for them.
.
.
.
5th April 2007, 05:30 PM
Septic Blue
Inspector
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Thomas
It does seem odd that the court was Jewish for maybe 20 years then reverted back to being Gentile by 1881.
Hi Stephen,
The demographics of the Victorian East End shifted quite frequently.
To a certain extent, it could be said in this particular case that the slum-dwelling Gentiles of the rookeries around Flower & Dean Street (southwestern portion) and Goulston Street simply traded places with the immigrant Jews.
The Slum Clearance / Re-Development schemes of the mid-1880's, which resulted in the construction of various model dwellings, such as Wentworth Buildings, George Yard Buildings, Lolesworth Buildings and Rothschild Buildings, displaced thousands of Gentiles of the lowest social class. Dorset Street absorbed a significant portion of those who were left homeless, while immigrant Jews flocked to the Wentworth and Rothschild Buildings in particular, which were slightly more upscale than George Yard and Lolesworth Buildings.
Colin
.
.
.
5th April 2007, 11:06 PM
George Hutchinson
Superintendent
Colin - a little off thread, but whilst we're here...
Can you confirm to me the location of the arch as originally situated on the Charlotte de Rothschild MD? I assumed it was on F&D St but I've heard it said it was on Thrawl Street. Was there access back and front via both streets?
PHILIP
__________________
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:11 AM
tom_wescott
Commissioner
Sam,
Why'd you stop at 1871????
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:16 AM
Jimmy
Chief Inspector
Philip
Here's a photo from the archive. Taken from Thrawl Street, 1975.
There seems to be a similar entrance on the Flower and Dean Street side.
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:33 AM
GavinBW
Inspector
Hi Tom,
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_wescott
Sam,
Why'd you stop at 1871????
Just above where Sam starts the census info
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn
Please note that the 1881 and 1891 Census returns have already been posted elsewhere on these boards, so I won't go over them again here.
all the best
Gavin
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 03:55 AM
Septic Blue
Inspector
Hi Philip,
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hutchinson
Can you confirm to me the location of the arch as originally situated on the Charlotte de Rothschild MD?
As the photo, which John posted clearly indicates, there was an arch on each of the two streets; Flower & Dean and Thrawl. Which one of the two now stands on Wentworth Street is anyone's guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hutchinson
Was there access back and front via both streets?
According to Jerry White, the Flower & Dean Street entrance was always kept locked, in order to prevent people from using the courtyard of Rothschild Buildings as a shortcut between Flower & Dean Street and Thrawl Street. I would think that this was a security precaution as well, prior to the slum clearances / re-development of additional portions of Flower & Dean Street, which occurred in the 1890's.
Colin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Septic Blue : 6th April 2007 at 04:10 AM.
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 04:24 AM
Annie O
Inspector
Thanks for sharing, Sam; it's obvious you've done a lot of work here.
__________________
Be nice!
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:08 PM
Sam Flynn
Commissioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie O
Thanks for sharing, Sam; it's obvious you've done a lot of work here.
You're welcome, Annie
__________________
Sam Flynn
"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung)
Occupants of Miller's Rents and Miller's Court
1st April 2007, 06:59 PM
Sam Flynn
Commissioner
Hi all,
Thought I'd try to picture, as best I could, the shifting population of what eventually became known as "Miller's Court" from 1861 onwards. Having established that the place was known as "Miller's Rents" in 1851, I tried to track backwards, but to no avail. This is primarily due to no premise numbers, or "minor names" for groups of houses, being given in the 1841 Census. We only have a "slab" of households who lived along Dorset Street and its various tributaries.
However, the 1841 Census does show a cooper by the name of Frederick Miller, his wife Sarah and a family of 5 children occupying one house on Dorset St. There is also a Matthew Miller and wife Alice living there at the same time, however his humble calling of "cordwainer" (a low cobbler), not to mention his age (60) suggests that he wouldn't have been a landlord renting out a large number of rooms by 1851.
Could Frederick Miller, the barrel-maker, have been the originator of the name "Miller's Court". It's interesting to note that a cooper, John Nale (or Vale), was one of the first tenants, living in 2 Miller's Rents in 1851. Details of that Census, and those up to 1871, are given below.
Please note that the 1881 and 1891 Census returns have already been posted elsewhere on these boards, so I won't go over them again here.
1851 Census
1 Miller's Rents
Michael Regan (Head), 41, Musical String Maker, b. Whitechapel
Catherine (Wife), 34, b. Whitechapel
James (Son), 7, b. Whitechapel
Mary (Daur), 5, b. Whitechapel
Ellen (Daur), 3, b. Whitechapel
2 Miller's Rents
Jone Nale (Head), 40, Cooper, b. Middx
Charlotte (Wife), 39, b. Middx
Celia (Daur), 10, b. Middx
Mary (Daur), 1, b. Middx
3 Miller's Rents
Thomas Rigby (Head), 25, Coal Porter, b. Bethnal Green
Sarah Ann (Wife), 24, b. Borough
Thomas George (Son), 1, b. Spitalfields
1861 Census
5 & 6 Miller's court
Unoccupied
4 Miller's Court
Wolf Jacob (Head), 42, Glazier, b. Poland
Paulina (Wife), 35, b. Poland
Abraham (Son), 11, b. City of London
Caroline (Daur), 9, Scholar, b. City of London
Rachel (Daur), 7, Scholar, b. City of London
Anna (Daur), 5, b. City of London
Hyman Raphael (Lodger), 23, Glazier, b. Poland
3 Miller's Court
Barnett Marks (Head), 31, Slipper Maker, b. Poland
Rachael (Wife), 27, Slipper Maker, b. Prussia
Sarah (Daur), 2, b. Spitalfields
Gustave (Son), 6 months, b. Spitalfields
2 Miller's Court
Emanuel Abrahams (Head), 25, Glazier, b. Poland
Selma (Wife), 30, b. Germany
1 Miller's Court
Unoccupied
1871 Census
6 Miller's Court
Isaac Hyams (Head), 32, Tailor, b. ???
Sarah (Wife), 36, Tailor
Ester (Daur), 20, Cape Maker
Annie (Daur), 16, Tailoress
??? (Son), 10, Scholar
Jacob (Son), 6
Leah (Daur), 1, b. Spitalfields
Joseph [Davis?] (Head), 69, General Dealer, b. Shalford, Essex
Esther (Wife), 60, b. Spitalfields
Isaac (Son), 12, Cigar Maker, b. Spitalfields
5 Miller's Court
Morris Browne (Head), 40, Glazier, b. Poland
Caroline (Wife), 20, b. Poland
Rebecca (Daur), 7, Scholar, b. Middlesex
Sarah (Daur), 4, Scholar, b. Middlesex
Davis (Son), 6 months, b. Middlesex
4 Miller's Court
Abraham Levy (Head), 23, Shoemaker, b. Poland
Rachel (Wife), 23, b. Poland
Samuel (Son), 3, Scholar, b. Poland
Solomon Rosenberg (Lodger), 20, Cigar Maker, b. Poland
Davis Rosenberg (Lodger), 23, Cigar Maker, b. Poland
Mark Rosenberg (Lodger), 23, Cigar Maker, b. Poland
3 Miller's Court
Abraham [Shillingdyke?] (Head), 34, Glazier, b. Poland
Sarah (Wife), 35, b. Poland
Israel (Son), 10, Scholar, b. Poland
Woolf (Son), 7, b. Poland
Jacob (Son), 7, b. Scholar, Poland
????? (Daur), 5, Scholar, b. Spitalfields
???? Samuels (Lodger), 20, Glazier, b. Poland, Deaf
2 Miller's Court
Davis Bernstein (Head), 45, Tailor, b. Poland
Annett[?] (Wife), 26, b. Poland
Betsy (Daur), 9[?], Hat Maker, b. Poland
Sarah (Daur), 7, b. Spitalfields
Jacob Marks (Visitor), 21, Boot Finisher, b. Poland
Solomon Black (Head), 40, Glazier, b. Poland
Rebecca (Wife), 32, b. Poland
Rachel (Daur), 15, Scholar, b. Poland
Leah (Daur), 12, Scholar, b. Poland
Sarah (Daur), 8[?], Scholar, b. Poland
Jacob (Son), 1, b. Spitalfields
1 Miller's Court
Morris Friedman (Head), 26, Boot Finisher, b. Poland
Sarah (Wife), 24, b. Poland
Rebecca (Daur), 6, Scholar, b. Spitalfields
Louis (Son), 2, b. Spitalfields
... what's interesting to note is that the premises become more and more crowded as the years go by, as well as bearing witness to an evident influx of Polish immigrants over a period of two decades from sometime in the 1850s to the 1870s. As the 1881 and 1891 Censuses testify, these Eastern European families - primarily Jews - were to move out of Miller's Court over the next two decades, perhaps in search of something better.
__________________
Sam Flynn
"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung)
.
.
.
5th April 2007, 03:46 PM
Stephen Thomas
Chief Inspector
Thanks very much for that, Sam. It does seem odd that the court was Jewish for maybe 20 years then reverted back to being Gentile by 1881. Perhaps the Jewish families were 'encouraged' to leave or maybe the area just got too rough for them.
.
.
.
5th April 2007, 05:30 PM
Septic Blue
Inspector
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Thomas
It does seem odd that the court was Jewish for maybe 20 years then reverted back to being Gentile by 1881.
Hi Stephen,
The demographics of the Victorian East End shifted quite frequently.
To a certain extent, it could be said in this particular case that the slum-dwelling Gentiles of the rookeries around Flower & Dean Street (southwestern portion) and Goulston Street simply traded places with the immigrant Jews.
The Slum Clearance / Re-Development schemes of the mid-1880's, which resulted in the construction of various model dwellings, such as Wentworth Buildings, George Yard Buildings, Lolesworth Buildings and Rothschild Buildings, displaced thousands of Gentiles of the lowest social class. Dorset Street absorbed a significant portion of those who were left homeless, while immigrant Jews flocked to the Wentworth and Rothschild Buildings in particular, which were slightly more upscale than George Yard and Lolesworth Buildings.
Colin
.
.
.
5th April 2007, 11:06 PM
George Hutchinson
Superintendent
Colin - a little off thread, but whilst we're here...
Can you confirm to me the location of the arch as originally situated on the Charlotte de Rothschild MD? I assumed it was on F&D St but I've heard it said it was on Thrawl Street. Was there access back and front via both streets?
PHILIP
__________________
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:11 AM
tom_wescott
Commissioner
Sam,
Why'd you stop at 1871????
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:16 AM
Jimmy
Chief Inspector
Philip
Here's a photo from the archive. Taken from Thrawl Street, 1975.
There seems to be a similar entrance on the Flower and Dean Street side.
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:33 AM
GavinBW
Inspector
Hi Tom,
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_wescott
Sam,
Why'd you stop at 1871????
Just above where Sam starts the census info
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn
Please note that the 1881 and 1891 Census returns have already been posted elsewhere on these boards, so I won't go over them again here.
all the best
Gavin
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 03:55 AM
Septic Blue
Inspector
Hi Philip,
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hutchinson
Can you confirm to me the location of the arch as originally situated on the Charlotte de Rothschild MD?
As the photo, which John posted clearly indicates, there was an arch on each of the two streets; Flower & Dean and Thrawl. Which one of the two now stands on Wentworth Street is anyone's guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hutchinson
Was there access back and front via both streets?
According to Jerry White, the Flower & Dean Street entrance was always kept locked, in order to prevent people from using the courtyard of Rothschild Buildings as a shortcut between Flower & Dean Street and Thrawl Street. I would think that this was a security precaution as well, prior to the slum clearances / re-development of additional portions of Flower & Dean Street, which occurred in the 1890's.
Colin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Septic Blue : 6th April 2007 at 04:10 AM.
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 04:24 AM
Annie O
Inspector
Thanks for sharing, Sam; it's obvious you've done a lot of work here.
__________________
Be nice!
.
.
.
6th April 2007, 12:08 PM
Sam Flynn
Commissioner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie O
Thanks for sharing, Sam; it's obvious you've done a lot of work here.
You're welcome, Annie
__________________
Sam Flynn
"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung)