Visit to Millers Court by Phillips and McDonald

[Khanada]

Im pretty sure the sheets and mattress would have been burned that same day. They probably hauled it to wherever was safe to burn it. The Docs maybe looked at it all in the daylight before it was burned.

I feel certain I've read somewhere recently (which means here or Sugden) that the inquest jurors were taken to 13 Millers Court, where they were brought into MJK's room to view it, including the bloodsoaked bed. What became of it after that, I've no ideas, beyond McCarthy's reporting that someone tried to buy her bed and he refused them.

In any case, if the inquest included a field trip to Millers Court to view the bed, the sheets/mattress couldn't have been burnt that same day.

[Jon Guy]

The liver was found between her calves, Jon, and it's quite possible that he placed it there out of the way as he was gaining access into the chest cavity via the diaphragm. I suspect that he'd already been on the bed to carve the flesh from the thigh and buttocks in a "comfortable" position - at which point I'd suggest that the mattress between Kelly's legs would have been obstacle-free.

Possibly, Sam. but he may have placed the liver between her feet whilst he was looking around for that piece of lung.

[Sam Flynn]

I reckon the space between her legs on the bed was where he was last, his attention being the removal of the thighs and buttocks ?

The liver was found between her calves, Jon, and it's quite possible that he placed it there out of the way as he was gaining access into the chest cavity via the diaphragm. I suspect that he'd already been on the bed to carve the flesh from the thigh and buttocks in a "comfortable" position - at which point I'd suggest that the mattress between Kelly's legs would have been obstacle-free.

[Jon Guy]

Do you think JTR stopped dismantling the body once he got to the heart? That would indicate the heart was the objective.

Personally, I think the position of the body as it was found and photographed may indicate what damage was inflicted last to Kelly.

I reckon the space between her legs on the bed was where he was last, his attention being the removal of the thighs and buttocks ?

[Sam Flynn]

Bond does state that the contents of the thorax were visible through the openings, and he had to open the thorax to study the lungs.

It doesn`t seem that she was totally dismantled.

Indeed not - although my observation was more about the apparent emptiness of the abdomen, rather than the thorax, and where those unlisted abdominal organs ended up. I'll not lose too much sleep over the piece of lung

[Mitch Rowe]

Bond does state that the contents of the thorax were visible through the openings, and he had to open the thorax to study the lungs.

It doesn`t seem that she was totally dismantled.

I would imagine that the doctors present at M.C. had to account for all the organs before the body was removed,putting them back in the body before she was removed in the shell.

Do you think JTR stopped dismantling the body once he got to the heart? That would indicate the heart was the objective.
I dont think Phillips is going to want to put the body back together on the spot. He doesnt seem to like inadequate conditions. But if there were more Doctors present they might want to try or at least try to identify the parts.
I think I read a press report or something that said the parts were taken out in a bucket?
Im pretty sure the sheets and mattress would have been burned that same day. They probably hauled it to wherever was safe to burn it. The Docs maybe looked at it all in the daylight before it was burned.

[Jon Guy]

Bond does state that the contents of the thorax were visible through the openings, and he had to open the thorax to study the lungs.

It doesn`t seem that she was totally dismantled.

I would imagine that the doctors present at M.C. had to account for all the organs before the body was removed,putting them back in the body before she was removed in the shell.

[Sam Flynn]

Would that not suggest that the pancreas, bladder and portion of lung were still in the body ?

Possibly, Jon - although judging by the photographs, there doesn't seem to have been much left in the abdominal cavity at all. It's possible that the pancreas was still connected to the duodenum, and that Bond simply listed organs that were specifically detached. Where the "torn away" portion of lung ended up is anyone's guess, but as one presumes it was removed as the killer "burrowed" towards the heart, I doubt that he'd have taken much care to leave the lung-fragment within the thorax.

(Note: I omitted to mention the spleen earlier, which Bond also counts in his inventory, if memory serves me correctly.)

[Jon Guy]

That said, Bond doesn't mention the pancreas or bladder either in that context, let alone the heart; for that matter, neither does he tell us the fate of the portion of lung that was "broken and torn away". Against that backdrop, it's hard to be sure that "heart absent" really did mean "absent from room" - or, indeed, whether some or all of the other non-inventorised organs weren't "absent" also.

Hi Sam

Would that not suggest that the pancreas, bladder and portion of lung were still in the body ?

I believe that when he said the heart was absent,he meant neither in the body or the room, as the other excised organs were accounted for.

[Sam Flynn]

I've always thought that it meant that the heart was 'absent'

It might have meant that - although the heart isn't mentioned in Dr Bond's inventory of organs dotted around the corpse - in which he mentions the lungs, stomach, liver, intestines, kidneys and uterus. That said, Bond doesn't mention the pancreas or bladder either in that context, let alone the heart; for that matter, neither does he tell us the fate of the portion of lung that was "broken and torn away". Against that backdrop, it's hard to be sure that "heart absent" really did mean "absent from room" - or, indeed, whether some or all of the other non-inventorised organs weren't "absent" also.

[Sam Flynn]

Maybe,just maybe JTR took MJK's heart,put it on the strong fire to cauterize the blood vessels and stop the blood pumping and then simply put it in his pocket and walked off.

The heart doesn't make blood, it just pumps it round the body. Once it had pumped its last (which it would have done not long after the blood had drained from the neck) the heart would have pumped no more.

Edit: Mitch - our posts crossed, and your points are valid.

[Mitch Rowe]

I dont understand why the heart has to be pumping. I assure you. By the time JTR removed the heart from MJKs body it wasnt pumping. I dont think there would have been much blood inside it either. It dont seem to like transporting it would have been much more difficult than a kidney.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello halomanuk!

Maybe,just maybe JTR took MJK's heart,put it on the strong fire to cauterize the blood vessels and stop the blood pumping and then simply put it in his pocket and walked off.

Hence the need to check the fire,JTR would not have blood pumping everywhere when he walked through Whitechapel and confirming the story that the heart was never found.

That is a very sensible thought, thank you!

All the best
Jukka

[steje73]

Sorry. Should have been clearer. It was one of those things where I didn't read it right and then subsequently just read it wrong again every time. I wasn't trying to knock anyone, just myself for being dumb.

[halomanuk]

Maybe,just maybe JTR took MJK's heart,put it on the strong fire to cauterize the blood vessels and stop the blood pumping and then simply put it in his pocket and walked off.

Hence the need to check the fire,JTR would not have blood pumping everywhere when he walked through Whitechapel and confirming the story that the heart was never found.