Was it mary kelly?

[The Good Michael]

There is no reason an editor would have picked up the ear/hair.

This is absolutely untrue. A good editor, or even a good journalist working on the most important story of the day, should have picked up on this if it were a mistake. Maybe an idiot wouldn't.

The fact is, the only record says, "ear". Assuming Barnett wasn't intoxicated, and neither was the journalist, 'ear' and 'air' sound totally different. As I said, if Kelly was known for her hair, and there was some possibility of mishearing, why weren't questions asked? I say they may have been, but we don't know. Why was this the only mishearing that anyone detects? Perhaps he pronounced Raymond Luxury Yachts as Mangrove Throatwarbler, but no one is ever concerned with that.

Cheers,

Mike

[miss marple]

Here we go again.The dropping of the h is characteristic of cockney and also in victorian times the addition of an unwanted h.T The reporters would have ignored the accent and transcribed into queen's english .There is no reason an editor would have picked up the ear/hair.
For those newbies,Joe was born in Whitechapel of irish parents, he was brought up in streets filled with irish dockworkers, He would probably have had a cockney accent overlaid with an irish l burr, add the irish burr and that makes air sound even more like ear.
Had he meant ears he would have used the plural.The fact is her ears, were unrecognisable due to the cutting and the bleeding.
Several of the friends who knew Mary well commented on her hair.
Caroline Maxwell's description is so at odds with everyone else, that she appears to be describing a different person. Perhaps she is, she did not know Mary that well.
Cockney are famous for their gift of the gab,as are the irish. Why deny Joe his articulacy?
The difference between cockney then and now is that the cockney in victorian times articulated clearly. Just listen to Marie Lloyd and other music hall stars. Being cockney dis'nt mean bad speech, its a distinctive accent.Today with careless speech and gottal stops and the increase of careless estury english those nicities are gone.

[Observer]

ask Soothsayer over on the Maybrick thread Claire

all the best

Observer

[Observer]

He did Micheal, both when she was alive, and when her poor lifeless body lay on that bed.

all the best

Observer

[claire]

Mary Kelly herself fleeing to Ireland, and buying a pig farm with the money she obtained from said freemasons.

Did said pigs have wings?

[Observer]

Of course it could all be a conspiracy, with everyone who identified the body agreeing to say it was Mary Kelly, they falling to the lure of freemason bribes. Mary Kelly herself fleeing to Ireland, and buying a pig farm with the money she obtained from said freemasons.

Observer

[The Good Michael]

Barnett saw her in the flesh.

I really want to make a pun. Somebody stop me. Gareth, tell me it's wrong.

Mike

[Observer]

Hi

Just looked at the body of Mary Kelly, and if I'd known her as intimately as Joe Barnett had, then the body is not so mutilated that I would not recognise her. And that's from a photograph, Barnett saw her in the flesh.

all the best

Observer

[The Good Michael]

This statement read to me like a lot of police-written ones...I was proceeding in a north westerly direction when I espied a broadshouldered gentleman in a dark mantle. I had cause to notice this on account of the fact that I had recently purchased a similar garment from a repository approximately a hundred and three yards to the north of Thrawl Street...ooh, nearly got carried away then. In other words, I have little reason to believe those were Barnett's actual words.

Claire,

Those words sound very official, don't they. Yet, he was apparently literate, so he claimed. People did have more of a tendency to try and use proper English back then. They were proud of that ability. It's changed quite a bit since then.

Cheers,

Mike

[Dan Norder]

Dan's obviously never heard an English accent, let alone Cockney...

As already pointed out the people who took notes of the inquest were quite familiar with Cockney accents and didn't think Barnett said what you insist he must have said. You can invent up whatever rationalization you like about why I don't agree with you, but to suggest that the people there at the time didn't understand the accent is just nonsense.

I hate to say this, but sometimes you talk like a real ****, you know that?

You've obviously never heard a real ****.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Elias!

Why indeed?!

Maybe she was there to take the attention away from the Royal Conspiracy...

All the best
Jukka

[Elias]

If MJK was involved in some sort of cover-up and it wasn't her in Miller's Court, why on earth was she hanging around the area that morning, talking to friends and going for a drink. Surely she'd have been out of the area as quickly as possible.

[claire]

Hi Fisherman,

It was simply just the idea that Mary's hair wouldn't have been as distinctive as her ear to those asked to say whether it was her...sorry if I was too jocular

Hi Anna,

This statement read to me like a lot of police-written ones...I was proceeding in a north westerly direction when I espied a broadshouldered gentleman in a dark mantle. I had cause to notice this on account of the fact that I had recently purchased a similar garment from a repository approximately a hundred and three yards to the north of Thrawl Street...ooh, nearly got carried away then. In other words, I have little reason to believe those were Barnett's actual words.

[Fisherman]

Hi Claire!

I am just trying to clarify the fact that an identification using an ear is nothing to laugh at. It is a more safe method than using the hair, since it involves physical elements that cannot be changed the way hair can.
Alongside that, I freely admit that Barnett can have spoken of "hair", and not "ear", realizing that such a means of identification may have been more viable in Kellys case than in most other cases.

Putting it in other words, I think that you were laughing a little bit too much about a very sound suggestion.

All the best, Claire!
Fisherman

[anna]

Hi all,
On another thread....."Who Was Julia"

You will note that at no time,in his statement or his testimony at the inquest, does Barnett show any sign of using Cockney....infact he is quite eloquent.

In one section posted by Chris Scott..
Barnett says...I have lived with her for 18 months,8 in Millers Court,until last Tuesday week when,in consequence of not earning sufficient money to give her and resolving to prostitution.....

It sounds East End......suprisingly posh for what they look like...and considering that he worked markets....

I can't decide if he maybe cleans his speech up for this serious occassion,or someone else does it for him when they report his words,or he just doesn't speak Cockney.....