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If Mrs. Maxwell Didn't See Mary Who Did She See?

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  • If Mrs. Maxwell Didn't See Mary Who Did She See?

    I was just rereading Mrs. Maxwell's statement about meeting Mary that morning and this question occurred to me. How hard could it have been for the police to find out the woman she spoke to if it was not Mary? I would have to think that if not Mary it would have to have been someone from the lodging house or perhaps a friend of someone in the lodging house that she had seen on a few occasions or someone in the immediate vicinity of the lodging house. It seems a bit strange that the police couldn't make a determination as to whom she had actually been speaking.

    Any thoughts?

    c.d.

  • #2
    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    I was just rereading Mrs. Maxwell's statement about meeting Mary that morning and this question occurred to me. How hard could it have been for the police to find out the woman she spoke to if it was not Mary? I would have to think that if not Mary it would have to have been someone from the lodging house or perhaps a friend of someone in the lodging house that she had seen on a few occasions or someone in the immediate vicinity of the lodging house. It seems a bit strange that the police couldn't make a determination as to whom she had actually been speaking.

    Any thoughts?

    c.d.
    Hi cd
    Well the one she said she spoke to was apparently dead so she coudnt corroberate it. But i see what you mean re other means. My personal opinion is that maxwell spoke to someone whom she thought was mary. Maybe one of her freinds that she was known to let crash?
    I just think that timing wise its just way too tight for her to be killed in the morning light.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi,
      Mrs Maxwell had ample time to realise any mistake before the inquest, or even at the inquest, but never did,
      I would say, if it is a fact that Kelly was killed before 8.am. then the reason she
      told her story was that she was lying,. not a honest mistake,
      We can draw all kinds of sinister motives for this.. especially the Norfolk letter , giving Maxwell's address.
      'Was she given someone an alibi?..Someone who never had one for the night hours , but could be vouched for after 8.am.
      Regards Richard.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
        Hi,
        Mrs Maxwell had ample time to realise any mistake before the inquest, or even at the inquest, but never did,
        I would say, if it is a fact that Kelly was killed before 8.am. then the reason she
        told her story was that she was lying,. not a honest mistake,
        We can draw all kinds of sinister motives for this.. especially the Norfolk letter , giving Maxwell's address.
        'Was she given someone an alibi?..Someone who never had one for the night hours , but could be vouched for after 8.am.
        Regards Richard.
        Yes, this is something I believe is a strong possibility. Even if it was, for whatever reason an alibi just to exonerate somebody who may not have been the murderer but perhaps couldn't account for their movements.
        I know he has been discussed before but is Henry Maxwell a possible candidate for the ripper? Especially with the timing of his death. Even if he wasn't Jack he could have excused himself for a couple of hours during the night, innocently, whilst Mrs Maxwell watched Crosshinghams IE Had a sleep at home and she gave him an alibi. I have often wondered if he was the man stood outside Crossinghams keeping an eye on the court for Mcarthy, for an extra shilling seen by Sarah Lewis.

        Comment


        • #5
          She also said that Mary had told her that she’d just been to The Britannia for a drink. I can’t recall if this was checked out. Mary would most likely have been known there and it’s unlikely that the pub would have been ‘packed to the rafters’ before 8 am.

          Guys I’m behind here, apologies, what was the Norfolk Letter?
          Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 07-01-2018, 03:22 AM.
          Regards

          Herlock






          "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
            She also said that Mary had told her that she’d just been to The Britannia for a drink. I can’t recall if this was checked out. Mary would most likely have been known there and it’s unlikely that the pub would have been ‘packed to the rafters’ before 8 am.

            Guys I’m behind here, apologies, what was the Norfolk Letter?
            A letter to police that had the written address as that of Mrs Maxwell. Purporting to be from the killer
            G U T

            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GUT View Post
              A letter to police that had the written address as that of Mrs Maxwell. Purporting to be from the killer
              Thanks GUT

              Has it been reproduced on here?
              Regards

              Herlock






              "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi,
                I think Maxwell was either telling the truth or she lied , but certainly not mistaken.
                I am swayed by the former, and don't forget she wasn't the only person who claimed to see her that morning.

                Regards

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                  Thanks GUT

                  Has it been reproduced on here?
                  https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=15280

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the responses but they don't really seem to be getting to the heart of the question. Yes, she could have been mistaken, lied or been involved in a cover up. But couldn't the police have made an effort to find the person she thought she had spoken to? To me, this doesn't seem like it would have been too difficult to do. So I am trying to determine if this was in fact done and if not, why not?

                    c.d.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The letter is also in Letters from Hell (p.124 if you have a copy). It's not shown in the by-date list of letter (presumably because the original was never found?) but is shown as reported by the Weekly Budget 17 Nov, which adds that it was dated (by the author?) 29/10/88.

                      Not to derail the thread, but has anyone tried to track down the original, in the Great Yarmouth police files?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                        Thanks for the responses but they don't really seem to be getting to the heart of the question. Yes, she could have been mistaken, lied or been involved in a cover up. But couldn't the police have made an effort to find the person she thought she had spoken to? To me, this doesn't seem like it would have been too difficult to do. So I am trying to determine if this was in fact done and if not, why not?
                        The police (according to the papers anyway) seem to have decided that - as with Hutchinson - Maxwell had the wrong day rather than the wrong person.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How did Mrs Maxwell get the day wrong?

                          She was first interviewed by the police on the afternoon of 9th November, the day of the murder.
                          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                            The police (according to the papers anyway) seem to have decided that - as with Hutchinson - Maxwell had the wrong day rather than the wrong person.
                            Hello Joshua,

                            Yes, that is exactly my point. It seems to have been an arbitrary decision by the police regarding an extremely important witness who could help fix the time of death if she was correct in her testimony. But far from trying to find a needle in a haystack they simply had to find an attractive, auburn haired 20 something young woman in the immediate area who could corroborate the conversation with Maxwell and thus prove that she was mistaken. Yet, as far as we know, that doesn't seem to have happened which seems rather odd.

                            c.d.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                              How did Mrs Maxwell get the day wrong?

                              She was first interviewed by the police on the afternoon of 9th November, the day of the murder.
                              I don't know that she did. Maybe the police just convinced themselves that this was the case, as it conflicted with most other sightings and medical estimates? Or they checked with the shop which she said she visited but they said it was the day before?
                              But you could say that the sighting was actually the previous day for Maxwell, not the same day - she was working nights and went to bed after her sighting.

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