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Hi Guys,
I initially intended this as part of a book on Nichols, but have decided, instead, to forego the manuscript and simply post these items.
I have a fondness for history, as well as for maps, and thought perhaps some of you might also.
** Enjoy **
Mary Ann Nichols was born in 1845, Dean Street, off Fetter Lane.
This map extract is from 1846. Along with Dean St (roughly half-way up Fetter, running to the east to meet with Gr New St). St Bride's Church (where she got married) was only several blocks away to the south-east (situated at the south-west junction of Fleet, Bridge, Farringdon, & Ludgate). Several blocks to the west from St Bride's (running south from Fleet St) is Bouverie St where William and Mary Ann lived for a short while after their wedding.
[I'm not overly experienced with uploading files to the message board; so, please bear with me if any do not show up properly - thanks]
(G F Crutchley's 1846 Map of London)
(Interior shot of St Bride's Fleet Street Church)
St Bride's is one of the oldest churches in London. History of the premises goes back several millenia and approximately seven previous churches had stood on the same site. Recognized as a possible place of worship for 7th century Saxons. Rumored to have been founded by Celtic Monks, it is named after Ireland's legendary Saint Brigit, (who was origianlly a pagan goddess until the church cannonized her around the 5th century, in order to produce converts).
At this time, the Buck's Row area looked like this:
(G F Crutchley's 1846 Map of London)
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 12:07 AM
continued...
As you noticed in the 1846 map extract showing Buck's Row, it used to be named Ducking Pond Row. So far the earliest map I've been able to locate is from 1746:
(John Rocque's 1746 Map of London)
With the below enlargement, you can make out the name, better. At what would be, roughly, the junction of Buck's Row and Brady Street, there was a pond call Ducking Pond.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 12:25 AM
continued....
A quick jump ahead to Charles Booth's London Poverty Map of the Buck's Row area...
(Extract from Map of London Poverty based on economic study by Charles Booth, published in 1889 - if memory serves, the study took approximately one year)
Red: Middle Class & Well-to-do
Orange: Fairly Comfortable
Brown: Mixed - Comfortable & Poor
Dark Blue: Poor - 18s to 20s per week for a moderate family
Black: (there are actually two-tones of "black" used on the map which are hard to distinquish)
One hue represents very poor and the other hue represents the lowest class/semi-criminal.
Tomorrow, I hope to post an extract of the earliest map that I've come across, which cites Buck's instead of Ducking Pond.
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 02:19 AM
Hi dyost,
You stated earlier:
As you noticed in the 1846 map extract showing Buck's Row, it used to be named Ducking Pond Row. So far the earliest map I've been able to locate is from 1746:
I think I remember reading that it was once called Dunking Pond Row because thats where 'the locals' used to drown (dunk) suspected witches back-in-the-day.
I believe that the name subsequently changed from Dunking Pond Row to Ducking Pond Row to Ducks Row and then to Bucks Row.
If I recall correctly, it was from an article I read by either Rob Clack or Phil Hutchinson and it is somewhere on the casebook site. (I can't find it but if I do, I'll post the link).
sincerely,
Nicky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 02:35 AM
Hi dyost,
Apparently, Bernard Brown wrote an article for Ripper Notes (Issue #20 I think it is) October 2004 which refers to it.
I dont have Ripper Notes but here is a link that mentions Mr. Browns article.
sincerely
Nicky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen_Chapman14th September 2007, 03:43 AM
Hello Nicole,
From what I have read, Buck's Row was subsequently renamed Durward Street in 1892, at the request of local residents, as many people, especially postmen, had taken to calling it 'Killer's Row', after Mary Anne's murder.
Cheers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 11:50 AM
Hi Stephen,
You said:
From what I have read, Buck's Row was subsequently renamed Durward Street in 1892, at the request of local residents, as many people, especially postmen, had taken to calling it 'Killer's Row'
I'm not quite certain about the exact dates, but yes!
Locals did refer to it as 'Killers Row'. (It has a lovely ring to it, don't you think?)
I've visited Durward Street dozens of times and I STILL refer to it as Bucks Row.
sincerely
Nicky
PS>> If you ever get to visit Whitechapel, you should try turning into 'Killers Row' from Brady Street late at night whilst listening to Beethovens 'Moonlight Sonata' on the ol' MP3. Believe me...that'll put the chills up you!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal14th September 2007, 01:56 PM
Minor point, but Mary Ann Nichols was born at Dawes Court off Shoe Lane, not Dean Street where they lived in 1851.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy14th September 2007, 02:36 PM
PS>> If you ever get to visit Whitechapel, you should try turning into 'Killers Row' from Brady Street late at night whilst listening to Beethovens 'Moonlight Sonata' on the ol' MP3. Believe me...that'll put the chills up you!!!
You should have seen it late at night in the days before the new flats and sports centre were built. No soundtrack necessary!!
JB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy14th September 2007, 03:12 PM
In fact, it looked just like this...
8616
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 10:42 PM
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the update, regarding The Shoe Lane aspect.
I don't recall seeing a map, wherein Buck's was called Ducks Row, but Ill look thru the maps I have.
For me, (at least), the images did not seem to come out correctly - except for the one I did as an attachment.
Attached are the 1746 close up of Ducking Pond (black & white) and the 1846 of Ducking Pond (color).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 10:53 PM
and the Charles Booth from 1889.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 11:00 PM
So far, the earliest reference I've come across to "Buck's Row" comes from 1830 (Greenwood - see attachment). The next earliest map I have is from 1827, (also Greenwood), which doesn't list Buck's.
So far, I've not come across a reference to a Ducks Row, but one map, (James Reynolds 1859 which is in 4 segments), could be mistaken for Ducks Row, but it is a "B" and not a "D".
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 11:16 PM
Hi all,
Dyost, you stated:
I don't recall seeing a map, wherein Buck's was called Ducks Row, but Ill look thru the maps I have.
Ooops! I hold my hands up, Dave! To be honest, I made my post on (jaded) memory alone. I (admittedly) cant find the article to which I refer. I could be wrong about the 'Ducks Row' thing.
sincerely
Nicky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost15th September 2007, 02:40 PM
Hi Nicky,
That's ok. Unless I'm actually working on something, I tend to rely on my memory, also. (Although I probably shouldn't these days
. Same could be said of my spelling - I'm still waiting for Bill Gates to put spell-check on my mechanical pencil 
.)
And thanks for the link to Brown's Ripper Notes article. It's been quite a few years since I've held an actual issue (latest would've been in 2002, I think).
* Yeah I wouldn't be surprised, if the locals had colloquially nicknamed Ducking Pond, "dunking pond," during the time of the european witch hunts *
I have come across a pre-1530's map during the time of Henry VIII (c.1520). While it does show Whitechapel Road and Brick Lane, unfortunately, it doesn't go much farther east than that particular junction. Although they probably didn't feel a need to since it seems to have been predominantly fields and trees.
After 1888, the next latest map I have is from 1894. So far, I've not been able to locate a decently available map for the years 90-93. But I came across a dissertation here on the casebook by John Bennett for the Journal of the Whitechapel Society (the issue # doesn't seem to be listed, but see link http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...rd-street.html )
Looks like John did a very excellent job of researching the historical background on Buck's.
According to John, it was renamed Durward on Oct 25, 1892, as a result of the residents pettioning for a new name.
I can't say, I'm very familiar with the development and editing processes for map updates, adjustments, and publication, but I would guess that 1894 might be the earliest map which would show the name change, given the lateness in the year in which the name was officially changed.
And for those who haven't seen it, yet, attached is the 1894 map (showing building detail, which, of course, cites Durward) and the one from 1888. (Afraid I don't recall who published these particular maps.)
So far, I've come across several excellent places for on-line maps:
and
another decent source is
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy15th September 2007, 06:49 PM
Dave,
One interesting thing highlighted by the maps is that the right hand one above shows Bucks Row as 'Great Eastern Square'.
I had this chat with Rob Clack on these boards last year and he confirmed that Great Eastern Square was actually the name of the wide area in front of the Board School where public meetings were held up until the First World War.
It never seemed to appear on maps very often. In fact, I think this may be the only example.
JB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost19th September 2007, 12:09 AM
Hi Jimmy,
That is interesting. I have noticed it many times, but never understood why.
With some of these maps, I wonder if the publishers tended to give a dual name as an aide or guide for the populace? Like on the 1830 map, which lists Bucks Row (no name for "Winthrop St"), but also lists Ducking Pond Row over top the buildings.
I can't say I've ever seen "Great Eastern Square" on any other map, and if it wasn't for the 1888 map, would never know of the name. Like with the attached detailed map from 1873, there's usually no indication that the road (let alone a portion of it) had a dual name or a separate name.
Obvious Winthrop Street was called Little North Street, (which seemed to be originally if not affectionately known as Watson's Build, which could simply be a reference to the buildings, but I've noticed it on 2 maps already. Brady was originally called North Street, I believe.
An interesting side note from this, from my reviews of various maps,is that it seems several roads/streets had originally started out as North Street (or some derivation there of), and then eventually renamed. I wonder why the popularity for that particular name? And, it didn't seem to matter if the road traversed East-West, North-South, or diagonal.)
I've also noticed that the 1872 map shows a number of name changes - possibly more than what might be considered typical for an area. Wonder what might have caused such renaming to occur?
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just peachy21st September 2007, 12:40 PM
So far, the earliest reference I've come across to "Buck's Row" comes from 1830 (Greenwood - see attachment). The next earliest map I have is from 1827, (also Greenwood), which doesn't list Buck's.
Hi Dave
Although I haven't come across a map reference for Buck's Row pre 1830, I did come across Buck's Row listed in a hackney-coach directory from 1786.
The listing says Buck's row, White's row, Coverley's fields (Coverley's fields is an old name for an area of Mile End...I think?!) With White's row being included in that description I would think it is the same place. Maybe someone else will know exactly what area Coverley's Fields was in to confirm it though.
Also in an 1831 topographical dictionary of London the location of Buck's Rows is listed like this;
Buck's Row, Whitechapel-road is in Ducking-pond-row, Greyhound-lane and a part of the north side of the high road.It seems like Buck's Row was an area within Ducking Pond Row,for a while at least.
Debs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Septic Blue21st September 2007, 02:51 PM
Hi Debs,
Maybe someone else will know exactly what area Coverley's Fields was in to confirm it though.
The Survey of London, Volume 27 (Mile End New Town), 1957, mentions Coverley's Fields, but does not define the area with any degree of exactitude.
8676
1873 OS
I'll suggest the highlighted area as your best bet, while conceding that the fields may have extended farther north and east.
Colin 8675
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rclack21st September 2007, 03:56 PM
Hi Debs, Colin
Coverley Fields is marked on the 1894 O.S Map. It was opposite the Whitechapel Union Infirmary. I believe the site was owned by the Black Eagle Brewery.
8677
Rob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just peachy21st September 2007, 06:59 PM
Thanks Colin, Rob
It wasn't too far away then, and I suppose in 1786 Coverley's Fields could have covered a larger area than in the 1894 O.S. map.
There was a court case in 1845 concerning the Smith brothers distillery, which I think is marked on one of the Buck's Row maps from 1862? in the photo archives. It involves a complicated change in the excise laws of 1825, which are far too boring to mention! But basically the Smith's premises had been inspected in 1825 when the law came into force and this is the address that was noted at the time;
Counsel for the Crown then read the document referred to, or parts thereof, to the following effect:-
Whereas Thomas Smith and George Smith, of Bucks'-row, Whitechapel, on the 1st November, 1825, make entry of such and such premises, utensils, &c.by delivering to the proper officer of excise a description and so forth. This entry continued up to 1832 when the interest of the two brothers was incorporated in the sole surviving partner of Thomas Smith, namely, George Smith the present defendent.
Debs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew_Wardle22nd September 2007, 04:01 PM
PS>> If you ever get to visit Whitechapel, you should try turning into 'Killers Row' from Brady Street late at night whilst listening to Beethovens 'Moonlight Sonata' on the ol' MP3. Believe me...that'll put the chills up you!!!
Hi Nicky,
Nice to see another music fan on the boards!
I did go to the exact place you mention back in January when I was in London for the annual Mozart birthday concert. I spent the morning visiting a lot of the Ripper-related sites for the first time, while listening to Mozarts "Requiem" and "Mass in C Minor".
That was on a bright sunny morning, though. When I go back next year I could try a bit of Beethoven and stay late at night......
On the other hand, I could just look at Jimmy's photograph!
Best Regards,
Andrew
I initially intended this as part of a book on Nichols, but have decided, instead, to forego the manuscript and simply post these items.
I have a fondness for history, as well as for maps, and thought perhaps some of you might also.
** Enjoy **
Mary Ann Nichols was born in 1845, Dean Street, off Fetter Lane.
This map extract is from 1846. Along with Dean St (roughly half-way up Fetter, running to the east to meet with Gr New St). St Bride's Church (where she got married) was only several blocks away to the south-east (situated at the south-west junction of Fleet, Bridge, Farringdon, & Ludgate). Several blocks to the west from St Bride's (running south from Fleet St) is Bouverie St where William and Mary Ann lived for a short while after their wedding.
[I'm not overly experienced with uploading files to the message board; so, please bear with me if any do not show up properly - thanks]
(G F Crutchley's 1846 Map of London)
(Interior shot of St Bride's Fleet Street Church)
St Bride's is one of the oldest churches in London. History of the premises goes back several millenia and approximately seven previous churches had stood on the same site. Recognized as a possible place of worship for 7th century Saxons. Rumored to have been founded by Celtic Monks, it is named after Ireland's legendary Saint Brigit, (who was origianlly a pagan goddess until the church cannonized her around the 5th century, in order to produce converts).
At this time, the Buck's Row area looked like this:
(G F Crutchley's 1846 Map of London)
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 12:07 AM
continued...
As you noticed in the 1846 map extract showing Buck's Row, it used to be named Ducking Pond Row. So far the earliest map I've been able to locate is from 1746:
(John Rocque's 1746 Map of London)
With the below enlargement, you can make out the name, better. At what would be, roughly, the junction of Buck's Row and Brady Street, there was a pond call Ducking Pond.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 12:25 AM
continued....
A quick jump ahead to Charles Booth's London Poverty Map of the Buck's Row area...
(Extract from Map of London Poverty based on economic study by Charles Booth, published in 1889 - if memory serves, the study took approximately one year)
Red: Middle Class & Well-to-do
Orange: Fairly Comfortable
Brown: Mixed - Comfortable & Poor
Dark Blue: Poor - 18s to 20s per week for a moderate family
Black: (there are actually two-tones of "black" used on the map which are hard to distinquish)
One hue represents very poor and the other hue represents the lowest class/semi-criminal.
Tomorrow, I hope to post an extract of the earliest map that I've come across, which cites Buck's instead of Ducking Pond.
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 02:19 AM
Hi dyost,
You stated earlier:
As you noticed in the 1846 map extract showing Buck's Row, it used to be named Ducking Pond Row. So far the earliest map I've been able to locate is from 1746:
I think I remember reading that it was once called Dunking Pond Row because thats where 'the locals' used to drown (dunk) suspected witches back-in-the-day.
I believe that the name subsequently changed from Dunking Pond Row to Ducking Pond Row to Ducks Row and then to Bucks Row.
If I recall correctly, it was from an article I read by either Rob Clack or Phil Hutchinson and it is somewhere on the casebook site. (I can't find it but if I do, I'll post the link).
sincerely,
Nicky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 02:35 AM
Hi dyost,
Apparently, Bernard Brown wrote an article for Ripper Notes (Issue #20 I think it is) October 2004 which refers to it.
I dont have Ripper Notes but here is a link that mentions Mr. Browns article.
sincerely
Nicky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen_Chapman14th September 2007, 03:43 AM
Hello Nicole,
From what I have read, Buck's Row was subsequently renamed Durward Street in 1892, at the request of local residents, as many people, especially postmen, had taken to calling it 'Killer's Row', after Mary Anne's murder.
Cheers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 11:50 AM
Hi Stephen,
You said:
From what I have read, Buck's Row was subsequently renamed Durward Street in 1892, at the request of local residents, as many people, especially postmen, had taken to calling it 'Killer's Row'
I'm not quite certain about the exact dates, but yes!
Locals did refer to it as 'Killers Row'. (It has a lovely ring to it, don't you think?)
I've visited Durward Street dozens of times and I STILL refer to it as Bucks Row.
sincerely
Nicky
PS>> If you ever get to visit Whitechapel, you should try turning into 'Killers Row' from Brady Street late at night whilst listening to Beethovens 'Moonlight Sonata' on the ol' MP3. Believe me...that'll put the chills up you!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal14th September 2007, 01:56 PM
Minor point, but Mary Ann Nichols was born at Dawes Court off Shoe Lane, not Dean Street where they lived in 1851.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy14th September 2007, 02:36 PM
PS>> If you ever get to visit Whitechapel, you should try turning into 'Killers Row' from Brady Street late at night whilst listening to Beethovens 'Moonlight Sonata' on the ol' MP3. Believe me...that'll put the chills up you!!!
You should have seen it late at night in the days before the new flats and sports centre were built. No soundtrack necessary!!
JB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy14th September 2007, 03:12 PM
In fact, it looked just like this...
8616
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 10:42 PM
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the update, regarding The Shoe Lane aspect.
I don't recall seeing a map, wherein Buck's was called Ducks Row, but Ill look thru the maps I have.
For me, (at least), the images did not seem to come out correctly - except for the one I did as an attachment.
Attached are the 1746 close up of Ducking Pond (black & white) and the 1846 of Ducking Pond (color).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 10:53 PM
and the Charles Booth from 1889.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost14th September 2007, 11:00 PM
So far, the earliest reference I've come across to "Buck's Row" comes from 1830 (Greenwood - see attachment). The next earliest map I have is from 1827, (also Greenwood), which doesn't list Buck's.
So far, I've not come across a reference to a Ducks Row, but one map, (James Reynolds 1859 which is in 4 segments), could be mistaken for Ducks Row, but it is a "B" and not a "D".
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicole14th September 2007, 11:16 PM
Hi all,
Dyost, you stated:
I don't recall seeing a map, wherein Buck's was called Ducks Row, but Ill look thru the maps I have.
Ooops! I hold my hands up, Dave! To be honest, I made my post on (jaded) memory alone. I (admittedly) cant find the article to which I refer. I could be wrong about the 'Ducks Row' thing.
sincerely
Nicky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost15th September 2007, 02:40 PM
Hi Nicky,
That's ok. Unless I'm actually working on something, I tend to rely on my memory, also. (Although I probably shouldn't these days
. Same could be said of my spelling - I'm still waiting for Bill Gates to put spell-check on my mechanical pencil .)And thanks for the link to Brown's Ripper Notes article. It's been quite a few years since I've held an actual issue (latest would've been in 2002, I think).
* Yeah I wouldn't be surprised, if the locals had colloquially nicknamed Ducking Pond, "dunking pond," during the time of the european witch hunts *
I have come across a pre-1530's map during the time of Henry VIII (c.1520). While it does show Whitechapel Road and Brick Lane, unfortunately, it doesn't go much farther east than that particular junction. Although they probably didn't feel a need to since it seems to have been predominantly fields and trees.
After 1888, the next latest map I have is from 1894. So far, I've not been able to locate a decently available map for the years 90-93. But I came across a dissertation here on the casebook by John Bennett for the Journal of the Whitechapel Society (the issue # doesn't seem to be listed, but see link http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...rd-street.html )
Looks like John did a very excellent job of researching the historical background on Buck's.
According to John, it was renamed Durward on Oct 25, 1892, as a result of the residents pettioning for a new name.
I can't say, I'm very familiar with the development and editing processes for map updates, adjustments, and publication, but I would guess that 1894 might be the earliest map which would show the name change, given the lateness in the year in which the name was officially changed.
And for those who haven't seen it, yet, attached is the 1894 map (showing building detail, which, of course, cites Durward) and the one from 1888. (Afraid I don't recall who published these particular maps.)
So far, I've come across several excellent places for on-line maps:
and
another decent source is
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy15th September 2007, 06:49 PM
Dave,
One interesting thing highlighted by the maps is that the right hand one above shows Bucks Row as 'Great Eastern Square'.
I had this chat with Rob Clack on these boards last year and he confirmed that Great Eastern Square was actually the name of the wide area in front of the Board School where public meetings were held up until the First World War.
It never seemed to appear on maps very often. In fact, I think this may be the only example.
JB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dyost19th September 2007, 12:09 AM
Hi Jimmy,
That is interesting. I have noticed it many times, but never understood why.
With some of these maps, I wonder if the publishers tended to give a dual name as an aide or guide for the populace? Like on the 1830 map, which lists Bucks Row (no name for "Winthrop St"), but also lists Ducking Pond Row over top the buildings.
I can't say I've ever seen "Great Eastern Square" on any other map, and if it wasn't for the 1888 map, would never know of the name. Like with the attached detailed map from 1873, there's usually no indication that the road (let alone a portion of it) had a dual name or a separate name.
Obvious Winthrop Street was called Little North Street, (which seemed to be originally if not affectionately known as Watson's Build, which could simply be a reference to the buildings, but I've noticed it on 2 maps already. Brady was originally called North Street, I believe.
An interesting side note from this, from my reviews of various maps,is that it seems several roads/streets had originally started out as North Street (or some derivation there of), and then eventually renamed. I wonder why the popularity for that particular name? And, it didn't seem to matter if the road traversed East-West, North-South, or diagonal.)
I've also noticed that the 1872 map shows a number of name changes - possibly more than what might be considered typical for an area. Wonder what might have caused such renaming to occur?
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just peachy21st September 2007, 12:40 PM
So far, the earliest reference I've come across to "Buck's Row" comes from 1830 (Greenwood - see attachment). The next earliest map I have is from 1827, (also Greenwood), which doesn't list Buck's.
Hi Dave
Although I haven't come across a map reference for Buck's Row pre 1830, I did come across Buck's Row listed in a hackney-coach directory from 1786.
The listing says Buck's row, White's row, Coverley's fields (Coverley's fields is an old name for an area of Mile End...I think?!) With White's row being included in that description I would think it is the same place. Maybe someone else will know exactly what area Coverley's Fields was in to confirm it though.
Also in an 1831 topographical dictionary of London the location of Buck's Rows is listed like this;
Buck's Row, Whitechapel-road is in Ducking-pond-row, Greyhound-lane and a part of the north side of the high road.It seems like Buck's Row was an area within Ducking Pond Row,for a while at least.
Debs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Septic Blue21st September 2007, 02:51 PM
Hi Debs,
Maybe someone else will know exactly what area Coverley's Fields was in to confirm it though.
The Survey of London, Volume 27 (Mile End New Town), 1957, mentions Coverley's Fields, but does not define the area with any degree of exactitude.
8676
1873 OS
I'll suggest the highlighted area as your best bet, while conceding that the fields may have extended farther north and east.
Colin 8675
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rclack21st September 2007, 03:56 PM
Hi Debs, Colin
Coverley Fields is marked on the 1894 O.S Map. It was opposite the Whitechapel Union Infirmary. I believe the site was owned by the Black Eagle Brewery.
8677
Rob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just peachy21st September 2007, 06:59 PM
Thanks Colin, Rob
It wasn't too far away then, and I suppose in 1786 Coverley's Fields could have covered a larger area than in the 1894 O.S. map.
There was a court case in 1845 concerning the Smith brothers distillery, which I think is marked on one of the Buck's Row maps from 1862? in the photo archives. It involves a complicated change in the excise laws of 1825, which are far too boring to mention! But basically the Smith's premises had been inspected in 1825 when the law came into force and this is the address that was noted at the time;
Counsel for the Crown then read the document referred to, or parts thereof, to the following effect:-
Whereas Thomas Smith and George Smith, of Bucks'-row, Whitechapel, on the 1st November, 1825, make entry of such and such premises, utensils, &c.by delivering to the proper officer of excise a description and so forth. This entry continued up to 1832 when the interest of the two brothers was incorporated in the sole surviving partner of Thomas Smith, namely, George Smith the present defendent.
Debs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew_Wardle22nd September 2007, 04:01 PM
PS>> If you ever get to visit Whitechapel, you should try turning into 'Killers Row' from Brady Street late at night whilst listening to Beethovens 'Moonlight Sonata' on the ol' MP3. Believe me...that'll put the chills up you!!!
Hi Nicky,
Nice to see another music fan on the boards!
I did go to the exact place you mention back in January when I was in London for the annual Mozart birthday concert. I spent the morning visiting a lot of the Ripper-related sites for the first time, while listening to Mozarts "Requiem" and "Mass in C Minor".
That was on a bright sunny morning, though. When I go back next year I could try a bit of Beethoven and stay late at night......
On the other hand, I could just look at Jimmy's photograph!
Best Regards,
Andrew