What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed?

[Batman]

Mrs. Long saw Annie Chapman in the street five minutes after Cadosch heard someone falling against his fence.

There is blood spray on the fence next to where Chapman's neck was nearly decapitated.

[Simon Wood]

Mrs. Long saw Annie Chapman in the street five minutes after Cadosch heard someone falling against his fence.

[Batman]

Hi Batman,

"Can you please point to me a single forensic psychology related journal that has supported this position? I have heard over the years your position being repeated on here, but is there any academic support for it at all?"

There's no support from academics, because any who go near the subject feel obliged to say 'serial killer, same hand.' It's their opportunity to play along in Ripperland, ascribe deep psychological motives to an imaginary killer, discuss wound patterns, throw in a few statistics and attempt to retro-fit bits and pieces of modern analysis, leaving us none the wiser and the mystery exactly as they found it. I've said before that Ripperology feeds upon itself, and there's nothing of import in an academic paper that you can't find in a number of the better Ripper books.

I am one of many who cares not a fig for such things as wound patterns, skin flaps, signature analysis or geoprofiling, preferring instead that most rare and precious commodity, common sense.

The thing here is that whatever you say with respect to that whole field of forensic psychology, if correct, would be capable of a paper contradicting them. That's the way the peer-review process works. If they are wrong, then correct them. Yet no one has.

I bet you make an argument for there being no ripper. It has to be composed of some analysis and won't be too different from the same points of interest found in the professional literature.

Has the work in criminal psychology left us 'none the wise'? I think it has left us wiser as we have comparable cases to work with.

Emily Holland told the inquest that Polly was "very drunk and staggered against the wall." Ask yourself why Mrs. Green, in bed almost directly above the spot where Nichols' dead body was found, and Mr. and Mrs. Purkiss, the latter who at the appointed hour may have been pacing their bedroom directly opposite the spot where Nichols' dead body was found, didn't hear a thing.

And then think again about Mr. Brown's Stable Yard.

Jack the Ripper? Bah! Poppycock.

Regards,

Simon

What do you think it means?

Eddowes was murdered a few feet away from an open warehouse with a cleaner inside brushing up. He heard nothing.

Chapman was heard falling against the fence. The same fence had arterial spray on it.

[Batman]

The workers had been there for months in daylight .
They knew their way around and were working there in the summer daylight.

The point here is the capability to carry things without problems.

Have a look at the full description on the link .
Quite a few more doorways to get through ..... and why when he could have just got into the compound and dumped it ? .... where is the 'display' characteristic we hear about with JTR?
and yet a few months later in Pinchin street .... forget difficulties , dump it under the arches .
Clearly not the same killer then ?

How do you know this wasn't where he was keeping it for that very purpose?

Ha would have to be sitting on the hoardings to watch .
I suspect he may have been noticed .
I have put up no barriers , they're there in abundance .
Choosing to ignore them would be your choice but you'd have a difficult time persuading others

He doesn't have to watch each layer or mortar per brick to go down to figure out what the ones closest to the road look like. How do you know the hoardings were not possible to look over or could be 'sat' on for everyone to notice him?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Batman,

"Can you please point to me a single forensic psychology related journal that has supported this position? I have heard over the years your position being repeated on here, but is there any academic support for it at all?"

There's no support from academics, because any who go near the subject feel obliged to say 'serial killer, same hand.' It's their opportunity to play along in Ripperland, ascribe deep psychological motives to an imaginary killer, discuss wound patterns, throw in a few statistics and attempt to retro-fit bits and pieces of modern analysis, leaving us none the wiser and the mystery exactly as they found it. I've said before that Ripperology feeds upon itself, and there's nothing of import in an academic paper that you can't find in a number of the better Ripper books.

I am one of many who cares not a fig for such things as wound patterns, skin flaps, signature analysis or geoprofiling, preferring instead that most rare and precious commodity, common sense.

Emily Holland told the inquest that Polly was "very drunk and staggered against the wall." Ask yourself why Mrs. Green, in bed almost directly above the spot where Nichols' dead body was found, and Mr. and Mrs. Purkiss, the latter who at the appointed hour may have been pacing their bedroom directly opposite the spot where Nichols' dead body was found, didn't hear a thing.

And then think again about Mr. Brown's Stable Yard.

Jack the Ripper? Bah! Poppycock.

Regards,

Simon

And don't forget Polly's steel-tipped boots. If she'd come clip-clopping along Buck's Row from Brady Street, she'd have made a hell of a racket.

[packers stem]

I am sitting here and getting that workers have been using the same gangplanks carrying huge weights across, like the way I described, sacks of tools, bricks, and mortar... yet when it comes to a criminal dumping a body it becomes an 'extreme remote theoretically possible solution'?

The workers had been there for months in daylight .
They knew their way around and were working there in the summer daylight

If the entrance was just a few rooms from the vault then look how far he went in. Hardly anything. That's no maze then, is it? He even turns left again towards the direction he came in, keeping himself close to the road he entered in from.

Have a look at the full description on the link .
Quite a few more doorways to get through ..... and why when he could have just got into the compound and dumped it ? .... where is the 'display' characteristic we hear about with JTR?
and yet a few months later in Pinchin street .... forget difficulties , dump it under the arches .
Clearly not the same killer then ?

Furthermore, someone could have been walking past this place every single day and watched it develop a little more and more and have a good clue as to where rooms are.

I think you have created a barrier for yourself where one need not obviously be.

Ha would have to be sitting on the hoardings to watch .
I suspect he may have been noticed .
I have put up no barriers , they're there in abundance .
Choosing to ignore them would be your choice but you'd have a difficult time persuading others

[Batman]

I prefer probability over extreme remote theoretically possible solutions

It's possible that Queen Victoria slept in the vaults on a slumming session ...... it's unlikely though

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....highlight=plan

I am sitting here and getting that workers have been using the same gangplanks carrying huge weights across, like the way I described, sacks of tools, bricks, and mortar... yet when it comes to a criminal dumping a body it becomes an 'extreme remote theoretically possible solution'?

If the entrance was just a few rooms from the vault then look how far he went in. Hardly anything. That's no maze then, is it? He even turns left again towards the direction he came in, keeping himself close to the road he entered in from.

Furthermore, someone could have been walking past this place every single day and watched it develop a little more and more and have a good clue as to where rooms are.

I think you have created a barrier for yourself where one need not obviously be.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Batman,

"Can you please point to me a single forensic psychology related journal that has supported this position? I have heard over the years your position being repeated on here, but is there any academic support for it at all?"

There's no support from academics, because any who go near the subject feel obliged to say 'serial killer, same hand.' It's their opportunity to play along in Ripperland, ascribe deep psychological motives to an imaginary killer, discuss wound patterns, throw in a few statistics and attempt to retro-fit bits and pieces of modern analysis, leaving us none the wiser and the mystery exactly as they found it. I've said before that Ripperology feeds upon itself, and there's nothing of import in an academic paper that you can't find in a number of the better Ripper books.

I am one of many who cares not a fig for such things as wound patterns, skin flaps, signature analysis or geoprofiling, preferring instead that most rare and precious commodity, common sense.

Emily Holland told the inquest that Polly was "very drunk and staggered against the wall." Ask yourself why Mrs. Green, in bed almost directly above the spot where Nichols' dead body was found, and Mr. and Mrs. Purkiss, the latter who at the appointed hour may have been pacing their bedroom directly opposite the spot where Nichols' dead body was found, didn't hear a thing.

And then think again about Mr. Brown's Stable Yard.

Jack the Ripper? Bah! Poppycock.

Regards,

Simon

[packers stem]

No human can carry 25-30kg in a sack over their back with a lantern in their hand and manage a gangplank? Couldn't probably put the shovel in the bag with the handle out the opening?

I prefer probability over extreme remote theoretically possible solutions

It's possible that Queen Victoria slept in the vaults on a slumming session ...... it's unlikely though

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=28541&highlight=plan

[Batman]

Although it was complete darkness , he had to carry a torso , leg , shovel and lamp through the compound first , walk along gangplanks etc .
There's an extreme determination to believe in 'one man' .
If you're that determined you will convince yourself that it's a reasonable suggestion no matter how far away from a doorway .
Isn't it easier to accept the obvious

No human can carry 25-30kg in a sack over their back with a lantern in their hand and manage a gangplank? Couldn't probably put the shovel in the bag with the handle out the opening?

[packers stem]

If he entered bottom right it's not a maze anymore. It reduces the complexity. It's not mission impossible. Left and left again. He isn't going far.

All depends if the bottom right is an entrance or not.

Although it was complete darkness , he had to carry a torso , leg , shovel and lamp through the compound first , walk along gangplanks etc .
There's an extreme determination to believe in 'one man' .
If you're that determined you will convince yourself that it's a reasonable suggestion no matter how far away from a doorway .
Isn't it easier to accept the obvious

[Batman]

You make it sound so easy ...
One man and his torso ,leg , lamp and shovel.
Few flying pigs too I'm sure
Nice post Jerry
Cheers

If he entered bottom right it's not a maze anymore. It reduces the complexity. It's not mission impossible. Left and left again. He isn't going far.

All depends if the bottom right is an entrance or not.

[packers stem]

That was much closer to the side of the building than I thought. That isn't a whole pile of rooms to navigate if one went in the bottom right-hand side. Six rooms. It's like straight, left, straight, left again and dump in the vault.

You make it sound so easy ...
One man and his torso ,leg , lamp and shovel.
Few flying pigs too I'm sure
Nice post Jerry
Cheers

[Fisherman]

Thanks for posting Jerry.
that is literally a maze.

Yes, many thanks Jerry! Do we know how many entrances there were? And where?

[Abby Normal]

This is the best I can do atm. The red recatangle at the bottom is where I estimate the torso was discovered based on all the evidence. The half moon markings around the perimeter were the vaults. The vault where the torso was discovered was 15ft x 20ft if IIRC.

Thanks for posting Jerry.
that is literally a maze.