Did Jack only kill 3?

[lynn cates]

can't

Hello Jon. Thanks. Out of curiosity, why CAN'T they be answered? So far, we know that they are NOT answered, but can't is a bit more involved.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks. I can certainly agree that talk of conspiracy is unnecessary.

But I cannot agree that it is wrong to ask questions. If we don't ask, we will NEVER get an answer.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn. I didn't say it was wrong to ask questions. I can't see the point of asking questions which cannot be answered.
We only know what they did, not why they did it.

Maybe Shoe-lane was full, a party arrived from Scotland, being damn-near free and all, there was nay a spare cot in the hoose..

[lynn cates]

Q & A

Hello Jon. Thanks. I can certainly agree that talk of conspiracy is unnecessary.

But I cannot agree that it is wrong to ask questions. If we don't ask, we will NEVER get an answer.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Then one simple question. If Kate could go to Mile End due to HER penury, why not Shoe Lane again? If John had the 4d for Cooney's and Kate had 2d, why go to Mile End?

Cheers.
LC

We don't know what the conditions were like at Shoe-lane, but as is often the case today, if something is almost free it can be pretty shabby.

There is no benefit in asking questions which cannot be answered, it only creates the needless air of conspiracy.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

truce

Hello Mike. Interesting.

Do we know that the robbers were Irish self rule people? We know that there was a dynamite truce until the outcome of Parnell's policy was gauged. Many of the "force" factions adhered to this.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Hi again,

Ive been thinking about how Kates and Marys murder might be related and might be because of some Irish connections they shared or a common friend, and why Kates Sailor man might have waited for her to be released from Bishopsgate, or to at least show up if they didnt know where she was.

Sailor Man is a lookout for the Post Office Robbery that was going on that same weekend. I believe around 1300 L was taken, approximately 70,000 L in todays dollars, and some stamps. If Sailor Man was involved with that robbery as well it would explain why he was still there when Kate arrived.

The robbers were Irish self-rulers. Just over 5 weeks later Mary is killed and 2 interesting things happened, that may relate to this sort of storyline. 1, Abberline and his crew sift through the ashes for a second time Saturday morning. The only thing they may have missed the first time would be something minute, printed bills or printed stamps can be identified with just tiny fragments available.

2nd, at the beginning of the week a Senior Post Office Official, 2 members of parliament and some Irish police visit Millers Court.

The same bad guys robbing the Post Office and killing Kate....and the Post Office Robbery somehow leading to Mary Kellys room.

I realize that some would say speculation is like creating fiction....but when the facts are incorporated it becomes a theory. Anyone who thinks solving any of these cases wont require some wort of story tying up the loose ends is deceiving themselves. Some may prefer other storylines.

But a "story" is almost certainly what the real answer will be.

Best regards,

Michael

[lynn cates]

and yet . . .

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Then one simple question. If Kate could go to Mile End due to HER penury, why not Shoe Lane again? If John had the 4d for Cooney's and Kate had 2d, why go to Mile End?

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

Because they did have money Lynn.

Its not like today where you could lie about being broke but have money stashed at home. Kate & John were homeless, they could get a bed for the night at Shoe-Lane so long as they had no money. Turning their pocket out as proof of delinquency would be sufficient.

Kate apparently thought highly of John Kelly, she insisted he get a good nights sleep at a proper lodging-house, while she volunteered to go to the Mile-end Workhouse and likely was required to do some menial tasks for bed & board.
Some women are like that Lynn, they will put "you" first, regardless what inconveniences they will have to tolerate.

Regards, Jon S.

It was expected that they did Jon.

Monty

[Monty]

I wondered if anyone else was thinking the same...

Yep.

Even dossiers on WMDs have to be 'sexed' up nowadays...and we all know that they never exisisted.

Monty

[Wickerman]

Hello Simon. And this brings up an interesting question.

It makes perfect sense for two people who are broke to spend 2d each and go to Shoe Lane Casual Ward. But it makes no sense whatsoever for both to separate the next night--one to Mile End; one to Cooney's. Why not both back at Shoe lane?

Cheers.
LC

Because they did have money Lynn.

Its not like today where you could lie about being broke but have money stashed at home. Kate & John were homeless, they could get a bed for the night at Shoe-Lane so long as they had no money. Turning their pocket out as proof of delinquency would be sufficient.

Kate apparently thought highly of John Kelly, she insisted he get a good nights sleep at a proper lodging-house, while she volunteered to go to the Mile-end Workhouse and likely was required to do some menial tasks for bed & board.
Some women are like that Lynn, they will put "you" first, regardless what inconveniences they will have to tolerate.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

reading list

Hello Jon. Well, you know how it is. Some read spy novels; others read stories of serial killers. But research outshines both.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

At this sitting I still believe some of you have read too many spy novels...

Greg

I wondered if anyone else was thinking the same...

[Michael W Richards]

When he suggests he knows who was behind her death at the Inquest he says with some constables placed at his disposal they could catch the man....he doesnt seem to indicate he means its one location and one man.

Ergo, if he was right, our man was part of some kind or group.

Best regards,
Michael

This section of my post above is a erroneous mixing of Kidney and Kelly testimony, my apologies. It was bugging me that I had mixed them as soon as I logged off and I needed to correct it.

Due to fatigue as a result of some mild insomnia is my plead.

Best regards,
Michael

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Lynn,

With whom could she have had an appointment? Certainly not the Kent Hop Pickers' Association.

Was this, perhaps, the beginning of her choreographed "end"?

Regards,

Simon

I speculated Simon that Friday night was the night she made the initial contact that lead to the drinks Saturday evening and likely to her death Sunday morning.

John and Kate were described as "as man and wife" retiring by 9pm, yet they spent most of their time back in London apart. Even so, if she planned to do this its likely she would have told John about the plan, the only reason I can think of him lying about such minor details is that he approved or was part of her scheme. Maybe thats why he waits so long to come forward, even knowing about her jail time Saturday and the murder victim Sunday. He was scared they might have considered offing him as well.

When he suggests he knows who was behind her death at the Inquest he says with some constables placed at his disposal they could catch the man....he doesnt seem to indicate he means its one location and one man.

Ergo, if he was right, our man was part of some kind or group.

Best regards,
Michael

[Supe]

Dave,

...is there a written account or published text of this available anywhere please? Sounds like the sort of thing there ought to be...

Ah, the penalty I pay for harking back to my days as a university lecturer and speaking without text or notes. There is no extant text and the guy who would have filmed my presentation was too hungover to do so. But write me at newindyreview @aol.com (pull it together of course) and i probably have something to help.

Basically, i urged researchers and writers to ground themselves in LVP social history and mores so as not to come up with often clever, but quite anachronistic, notions. One example I cited was that because Barnett said he often read to Mary about the Ripper of an evening. This has brought for all sorts of ideas, a leading one being that Mary was illiterate.

As I pointed out, though, until there were Victrolas, radios, TVs and beyond the favored after-dinner entertainment was to sit around a fire or stove and have someone read to the rest. There are innumerable examples in history and literature (e.g. Great Expectations) of this. Generally a male would do the reading, not so much from chauvinism as that a woman was making good use of her time sewing or knitting. But there are examples of a husband also having his hands occupied, as with a tailor, in which case a child would do the reading.

The scene Barnett described was probably an example of domestic bliss at No. 13 Miller's Court.

But write to me at the above address and I can send you more information.

Don.