Did Jack only kill 3?

[Hunter]

It would not have taken long to perform the mutilations on either Chapman or Eddowes. Phillips was probably wrong about the length of time taken on Annie Chapman. He was relating how long it would take for him to do it, not a murderer with a motive that was incomprehensible to Phillips.

Same goes with Eddowes, even with the more gratuitous mutilations thrown in. Brown's timing was probably a little long. Sequeira guessed 3 minutes, and he was probably the closest to the real time taken. Someone adept with a knife can move very quickly.

They had never faced anything like this before and were literally dumbfounded by what they witnessed.

[lynn cates]

casual

Hello Mike. Thanks. But I had thought there was a newspaper article that had her chatting up a super at a casual house as well?

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

Are you seriously chastizing me for a simple nothing/nobody mistake that I apologized for, all the while remaining silent about your mistaken correction of my post?

The information I quoted about Bishopsgate is in A-Z, not an obscure source.

Its great that you believe yourself to be far better informed than others Monty, it would seem though that criticizing others and making errors while doing so doesnt really support that notion.

There was a time when I showed you great respect here and you earned it. Now you insult me and have the audacity to lecture me and others on their errors while making your own.

As for being taken seriously, I can assure you I am looking for no pats on the back from you or many others here. That would signal that I have lost my way.

Regards,

Mike R

You had a way Michael? You know where you are going?

I am far better informed than you and I don't make errors.

Lambeth Lynn, it was Lambeth.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Mike, Neil. I had always thought Kate's dictum amounted to, "My name? None of your business!"

Neil, was Kate's alleged story supposed to be spoken at Mile End or Shoe Lane?

Cheers.
LC

It was at Bishopsgate Lynn, see page 123 in The Jack the Ripper A-Z, from the 1996 edition.

Cheers Lynn,

Mike R

[Michael W Richards]

If you, and your ideas, are to be taken seriously Michael then get the facts correct.

It may suit the likes of Trevor Marriott however if you wish to be taken seriously then it does pay to do ones homework.

Monty

Are you seriously chastizing me for a simple nothing/nobody mistake that I apologized for, all the while remaining silent about your mistaken correction of my post?

The information I quoted about Bishopsgate is in A-Z, not an obscure source.

Its great that you believe yourself to be far better informed than others Monty, it would seem though that criticizing others and making errors while doing so doesnt really support that notion.

There was a time when I showed you great respect here and you earned it. Now you insult me and have the audacity to lecture me and others on their errors while making your own.

As for being taken seriously, I can assure you I am looking for no pats on the back from you or many others here. That would signal that I have lost my way.

Regards,

Mike R

[lynn cates]

Kate

Hello Mike, Neil. I had always thought Kate's dictum amounted to, "My name? None of your business!"

Neil, was Kate's alleged story supposed to be spoken at Mile End or Shoe Lane?

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

If you, and your ideas, are to be taken seriously Michael then get the facts correct.

It may suit the likes of Trevor Marriott however if you wish to be taken seriously then it does pay to do ones homework.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

It was 'nothing', not nobody.

And it was the Superintendent at the Casual Ward.

Monty

My apologies Monty, it was "nothing" not "nobody", however, as I originally stated, PC Louis Robinson and PC George Simmons took her to Bishopsgate Police Station where she used that pseudonym before Sgt Byfield locked her up.

I suppose what I suggested isnt your cup of tea.

Regards,

Mike R

[Monty]

It was 'nothing', not nobody.

And it was the Superintendent at the Casual Ward.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

Regarding the conversation pertaining to the amount of time used by the killer in Mitre Square, IF the 3 Wise Men did in fact see Kate, and I see no reason to doubt that sighting, then the total elapsed time from the carriageway at Mitre to Watkins discovery is approximately 8 minutes. Thats for the walk to the spot, the attack, all the mutilations and organ extractions, the colon severing and apron severing, and then being gone when Watkins enters the square.

Really pushes the disbelief buttons to imagine that kind of timing to do all that in near darkness in about what, 6 minutes maximum?

The most fascinating thing to me about this murder is the nearby presence of police. Pearce, Morris(ex), Marriot, Halse and Outram, Watkins, Harvey,..one near an open door close to the spot and one with a view of the murder site from the bedroom window.

I wonder about her stating her name as "nobody" when she is arrested. Like Im no bother, nothing to worry about with me, what I think doesnt matter, silent as a mouse am I. Defensive posturing? Could it be, should the story she allegedly told her ex-landlady be true, that she shut up about such Ripper reward talk around the police? Even while potted?

Best regards,

Mike R

[mariab]

To Rob House:
Cracked me up. :-)

It is Prince Albert Victor, right?
(That's what I get for being allergic to the Royals. That and the wrath of some Aussie acquaintancies, big time.)

PS.: For real, pertaining to the Royal Conspiracy, always thinking "the Prince-what's-his-motherf*ckin' name". His dad is WAY more important historically, though not necessarily Ripperologically.

[robhouse]

I assume Michael Thornton is a mere journalist vs. a Ripperologist? And what's "PAV"? "P-something Aberconway version"?

Yes, it stands for "Ppffffftthhh... Aberconway Version"

[mariab]

I assume Michael Thornton is a mere journalist vs. a Ripperologist? And what's "PAV"? "P-something Aberconway version"?

[Phil Carter]

'In the Sunday Express, 24 May 1992, Michael Thornton recalled her (Lady Aberconway) saying mischievously in 1972 that the memoranda gave 'the official line' and the truth could 'cause the Throne to totter'. On the other hand, in the Daily Mail, 2 December 2006, he reported her as merely saying her father was convinced the Ripper was Druitt.' From Jack the Ripper A-Z

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello Tom,

So on the one hand Lady A is making a precise statement about the murders that goes in the face of her dealings with another journalist, Farson, in 1959, and on the other hand we question the reliability of the journalist.

1972 was the time of the PAV mention. And Lady A Was very much alive.
in 2006 she had been dead 32years and the first report was 18years after her death. What was doing the rounds by May 1992? Hmmm

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

From Dr Browns official statement

"I was called shortly after 2 I reached, shortly after 18 minutes past 2."

"She must have been dead most likely within the half hour"

Dr Sequeira`s official statement

"I was called on 30th September at 5 to 2 and was the first medical man to arrive life had not been extinct more than one quarter of an hour"

I would suggest that puts the time of death as near to 1.35-1.40 as you are going to get it.

Hello Trevor,

When I raised this very point a while ago the following comments came back-


'Time of Death estimates are notoriously difficult'
'we cannot be sure that the Doctors knew the correct and precise time'

My point was that comparing the times given by Watkins and Morris, at about 1.45, 15mins from Sequiera would make t.o.d at about 1.40 and Brown at about 1.48.

So we have an 8min window. If Sequiera is correct the the attack started at 1.35. If Brown be correct the the attack started at 1.43. Given that the attack took 5mins, guess the problem. If it started at 1.35 then Lawende is wrong, and a policeman patrolling the alley is following the 2 int6 the square.
If Brown is correct, (the senior man?) then Watkins walked in and found the body with still 3mins of the attack to be done and Morris ran over with his lamp with 2mins of the attack left.

so when did the attack start, when did it stop and who cant tell the right time?

for my OWN satisfaction I asked a crime scene doctor here in Norway about time of death problems.
he opined that time of death under half an hour from arrival at the scene was more or less precise. Due to blood flow and temperature of the body. He also said that cold evenings enhanced the coldness of the body, meaning that the time of death estimate became lengthened due to the relatively rapid cooling of the body. The more exposed, the faster the body cooled. Finally I asked him two things- when time of death estimation became more difficult to ascertain in such a case as the Eddowes demise. He said that had they arrived an hour afterwards and upwards, then margins of error would creep in.
How precise would a doctor want to be about t.o.d.? Very, he said.
He then read through the report of all the injuries etc to the body and said that given the detail and manner of precise work done by the doctor in his examination, it indicates Browns time of death to be precise.
It was just an opinion- and Id love to see two or three CS doctors opine independantly.

He sincerely doubted it could be done, the mutilations et al in 5 mins unless the person had anatomical knowledge and or skill because of the kidney removal from the front.

I didnt get this written down apart from my noting his answers.


make of that what you will.
For me it made me look at the timing statements of the police involved.

I respect the doctors opinions.

Best wishes

Phil