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For what reason do we include Stride?

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  • #61
    Interesting observation, but "undone" and "torn" might betoken rather different things.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      Interesting observation, but "undone" and "torn" might betoken rather different things.
      My take on it to

      www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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      • #63
        Morris Eagle said in his inquest testimony, Her feet were towards the gates, about six or seven feet from them. In other words, she was a good couple of metres within the yard. Now to my mind, Liz after being assaulted in the street would have gone kicking and screaming into Dutfileds with her assailant not just scream, not very loudly according to Schwartz. Yet nobody saw or heard her putting up a fight, nor is there any evidence that she did, in fact, the evidence points the other way, yes those damned cachous etc
        This is what Schwartz said, The man tried to pull the woman into the street. Does that sound like a killer who then goes on to kill Liz in a darkened passageway, swiftly and silently? Not for me. Not only that but he draws attention to himself by shouting Lipski, and even if we surmise that he did this to scare Schwartz off how would he know that someone else, Fanny Mortimer, for instance, wouldn't come to her door to see what the commotion was and witnessed him? But of course, the cry of Lipski aimed at a man of strong Jewish appearance would almost certainly be thrown by a Gentile thus casting doubt on the IWEC being involved in the strong anti-Semitic climate.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
          Morris Eagle said in his inquest testimony, Her feet were towards the gates, about six or seven feet from them. In other words, she was a good couple of metres within the yard. Now to my mind, Liz after being assaulted in the street would have gone kicking and screaming into Dutfileds with her assailant not just scream, not very loudly according to Schwartz. Yet nobody saw or heard her putting up a fight, nor is there any evidence that she did, in fact, the evidence points the other way, yes those damned cachous etc
          This is what Schwartz said, The man tried to pull the woman into the street. Does that sound like a killer who then goes on to kill Liz in a darkened passageway, swiftly and silently? Not for me. Not only that but he draws attention to himself by shouting Lipski, and even if we surmise that he did this to scare Schwartz off how would he know that someone else, Fanny Mortimer, for instance, wouldn't come to her door to see what the commotion was and witnessed him? But of course, the cry of Lipski aimed at a man of strong Jewish appearance would almost certainly be thrown by a Gentile thus casting doubt on the IWEC being involved in the strong anti-Semitic climate.
          Hi DK
          I think he may have cut her throat in the street, fled and Stride then tried to make her way to the voices (and help) in the club but expired in the yard.
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
            Stride then tried to make her way to the voices (and help) in the club but expired in the yard.
            I get that impression as well, Abby. There's a possibility that she wouldn't have died (or even lost consciousness) instantly, owing to the nature of the wound, which may have given her a time to make her way into the yard herself.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              I get that impression as well, Abby. There's a possibility that she wouldn't have died (or even lost consciousness) instantly, owing to the nature of the wound, which may have given her a time to make her way into the yard herself.
              Thanks Sam
              agree. it would explain alot of things.
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • #67
                Hi
                Surely no blood was found in the street area. and appears to have only been in the yard.
                Regards Richard.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                  Hi
                  Surely no blood was found in the street area. and appears to have only been in the yard.
                  Regards Richard.
                  Indeed Richard. Doctor Blackwell, and Doctor Philips were in no doubt that Liz Stride was murdered where she lay. Both searched for blood stains other than the stream of blood which extended from her neck down to the gutter, and could find none.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Robert St Devil View Post

                    I cant rightfully say why Jack the Ripper undid the tops of these women's dresses,; however, since the pattern appears in both places, it would seem like a similar hand was evident, judging by the opened dresses. In the case of Stride, I've been wondering if Jack the Ripper put his hand inside of her dress, causing that blood-stained abrasion under her right arm.
                    I've always been partial to the idea that Jack used a ligature/cord to strangle his victims (Dr. Brownfield's theory)
                    The difference between a top button being undone or being torn open may be nothing more than the difference between a tight or loose fitting top button.

                    I wouldn't rule out the victim being responsible for this, in a desperate attempt to remove the ligature. There doesn't seem to be a rationale need for the killer to do that, unless he was looking for a necklace?
                    Regards, Jon S.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Harry D View Post

                      Stride's throat was cut less than an hour before a Ripper-esque murder. Sure, the timing is convenient, but life is full of strange coincidences. The Ripper case certainly isn't an exception to happenstance, e.g. Eddowes giving the same name to the police as the next victim, and Sarah Brown having her throat cut in a domestic on the night of the Double Event.
                      And Elizabeth Long's appearance at the Chapman inquest being followed by the murder of a woman nicknamed Long Liz.
                      "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                        Morris Eagle said in his inquest testimony, Her feet were towards the gates, about six or seven feet from them. In other words, she was a good couple of metres within the yard. Now to my mind, Liz after being assaulted in the street would have gone kicking and screaming into Dutfileds with her assailant not just scream, not very loudly according to Schwartz. Yet nobody saw or heard her putting up a fight, nor is there any evidence that she did, in fact, the evidence points the other way, yes those damned cachous etc
                        This is what Schwartz said, The man tried to pull the woman into the street. Does that sound like a killer who then goes on to kill Liz in a darkened passageway, swiftly and silently? Not for me. Not only that but he draws attention to himself by shouting Lipski, and even if we surmise that he did this to scare Schwartz off how would he know that someone else, Fanny Mortimer, for instance, wouldn't come to her door to see what the commotion was and witnessed him? But of course, the cry of Lipski aimed at a man of strong Jewish appearance would almost certainly be thrown by a Gentile thus casting doubt on the IWEC being involved in the strong anti-Semitic climate.
                        You say that "nobody saw or heard her putting up a fight" but isn't that what Schwartz claims to have done? I think his rather strange claim that she called out but not very loudly might be explained by the fact that Stride was being strangled/choked and was thus unable to make more noise than she did. I think Schwartz witnessed the first part of the murder (perhaps not a popular view these days).
                        "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Observer View Post
                          Indeed Richard. Doctor Blackwell, and Doctor Philips were in no doubt that Liz Stride was murdered where she lay. Both searched for blood stains other than the stream of blood which extended from her neck down to the gutter, and could find none.
                          Some possible reasons they found no other blood:

                          Pulled tight scarf
                          blood found on hand indicates she instictively put hand over wound
                          wet street and sidewalks
                          They missed it
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                            You say that "nobody saw or heard her putting up a fight" but isn't that what Schwartz claims to have done? I think his rather strange claim that she called out but not very loudly might be explained by the fact that Stride was being strangled/choked and was thus unable to make more noise than she did. I think Schwartz witnessed the first part of the murder (perhaps not a popular view these days).
                            well me and Sam agree with you
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Not only was there no blood on the street but there were no cachous either, yet some were strewn in the yard as well as being in Liz's hand. So BSM decides to slit Liz's throat in the middle of the street while there are two witnesses nearby? Sorry but not for my money.
                              Fanny Mortimer - I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half-past twelve and one o'clock this (Sunday) morning, and did not notice anything unusual. - A man touched her face, and said it was quite warm, so that the deed must have been done while I was standing at the door of my house. There was certainly no noise made, and I did not observe any one enter the gates. - A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about twenty yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound.

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                              • #75
                                Question to Frederick Blackwell - [Coroner] Was there any blood on the soles of the deceased's boots? - No. And I examined the clothes but found no blood on any part of them.
                                So it looks likely she didn't stand in any blood whilst staggering into the yard nor did any blood flow southward down her clothes. not impossible but I would think highly unlikely
                                Last edited by Darryl Kenyon; 09-18-2018, 12:25 PM.

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