Berner St. 1909 Sun/Shadow Study

[richardh]

Thanks for the kind replies.
There are some discrepancies between the Goad plan I used and the photograph (the one with the cartwheel) and because of this I had to make some allowances which has inevitably resulted in small variations of accuracy.

I've done a few measurements and concluded that the passageway entrance to Dutfield's in my model is about 8 feet wide. BUT looking at the Goad Map that I used as an 'aerial shot' I can see that my model is in actual fact a bit too narrow. So I would say that 9 feet wide is about right. Certainly there is an illusion of the passageway being somewhat narrower but when the camera moves toward the passageway and turns to look up toward Dutfield's yard you can see that in actual fact it is quite wide.

I'll post a short movie of what I've got so far to demonstrate the passageway width.

[Wickerman]

Hi Richardh! This may be a little off the subject, but your fascinating reconstruction project reminds me of something that's always bothered me. It's the width of the gateway between the club building and the building to its left. As I recall, each gate was found to be about 4-1/2 feet in width, making the driveway opening about 9 feet in width. Yet in the photo, the opening appears considerably narrower than that.

I know what you mean.
Accepting that everyone's screen is a different size, I think there are clues that confirm the accepted measurement.



If you measure the width on your screen of that house door to the left of the passage, then compare that with the width from corner to corner between the buildings, across the passage, you will see that the passage width is roughly three times the width of the door.
As doors are typically 36-38" wide (nominally 3ft, or more), then the passage must be nominally 9ft wide going by this very rough approximation.

By the way, I greatly admire your efforts to reconstruct the murder scenes. Like the excellent artwork of Jane Coram, these reconstructions bring the murder scenes into focus better than any words. You don't have to imagine the scene anymore, you can actually be there! Thanks much for your efforts.

P.S. I'm glad to see someone else is as sick of the bloody "bloody shawl" thread as I am.

I'll second that!

[Dr. John Watson]

Yep GUT I agree. I thought there was more going on with the gate. I'm adding one to the scene. I'll upload tomorrow.

thanks for comments all.

Hi Richardh! This may be a little off the subject, but your fascinating reconstruction project reminds me of something that's always bothered me. It's the width of the gateway between the club building and the building to its left. As I recall, each gate was found to be about 4-1/2 feet in width, making the driveway opening about 9 feet in width. Yet in the photo, the opening appears considerably narrower than that. I realize that distances in photographs can be distorted depending on the perspective and angle of the view. Still, judging from the height and width of the doorway immediately to the left of the gateway, I just can't picture the gateway being 9 feet wide. Is there a method you can employ to "test" that measurement by using other objects in the photo for comparison, such as the doorway for instance? Also, I believe someone recently discovered another photo of Dutfield's Yard, taken about the same time, showing a face-on view of the gateway. I haven't seen that photo, but if you've seen it, that might give the answer.

By the way, I greatly admire your efforts to reconstruct the murder scenes. Like the excellent artwork of Jane Coram, these reconstructions bring the murder scenes into focus better than any words. You don't have to imagine the scene anymore, you can actually be there! Thanks much for your efforts.

P.S. I'm glad to see someone else is as sick of the bloody "bloody shawl" thread as I am.


Dr. John

[GUT]

Well, I think the yard continues to the right of the steps - into an 'L' shape.

I would rather trust the Goad map BUT I think the map I linked in my first post is a Goad's map from 1899 so things might have been altered in the interim.

That's what I was trying to get at, which is the closest in time. And I get your point about the courtyard, but I just can't figure where it fits among the buildings shown in the sketch, which causes me to worry about the sketch.

Yes if the map was 10 years later there may have been changes

[richardh]

Well, I think the yard continues to the right of the steps - into an 'L' shape.

I would rather trust the Goad map BUT I think the map I linked in my first post is a Goad's map from 1899 so things might have been altered in the interim.

Well based on that I'd go right, except where is the yard that the map shows between the buildings marked "D" and "Forge" in the sketch?

[GUT]

Well based on that I'd go right, except where is the yard that the map shows between the buildings marked "D" and "Forge" in the sketch?

[richardh]

Here's another contemporary illustration showing the steps on the right:

[GUT]

Looking more closely I don't see how either Sketch fits the map. Where in the sketches is the courtyard to the right.

[GUT]

G'day Richard

I have no actual knowledge on it. I wonder where Jane got her info from, ie was it based on an earlier sketch? Also do you know when the earlier sketch was made, I'm a bit of a sucker for contemporaneous, but I'd also be more inclined to accept a sketch made at the scene than a map.

I know that's not much help.

[richardh]

I'm reconstructing Dutfield's yard:
This image shows the wooden steps to the rooms above the stable are positioned to the left (as you look from the gates toward it).

http://forum.casebook.org/attachment...8&d=1261096774

However all the depictions in illustrations show the steps on the right.
e.g:

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/15110.jpg

and

http://wiki.casebook.org/images/thum...fieldsYard.jpg

can someone help me out?

thanks.
R

[GUT]

Okay, here's a new time-lapse and image showing the scene with the gate in place:



And frame 34 comparison (about 11:15 am)



Not exact scaling but the shadow study is correct - shadows are in all the right place.

G'day Richard

It was close enough first time to persuade this little black duck.

[John Wheat]

To Richard excellent work as usual. Plus its good to see someone not going on about that bloody shawl.

[richardh]

Okay, here's a new time-lapse and image showing the scene with the gate in place:



And frame 34 comparison (about 11:15 am)



Not exact scaling but the shadow study is correct - shadows are in all the right place.

[GUT]

Just to clarify I had considered that the vertical lines the shadow sits on may have been from a gate with the design of the cartwheel replicated on it.

However all the shadows, ie window, chimney and downpipe on the study match the photo perfectly as does the cartwheel. The only logical conclusion is that it a shadow

[richardh]

Yep GUT I agree. I thought there was more going on with the gate. I'm adding one to the scene. I'll upload tomorrow.

thanks for comments all.

G'day Richard

As always well done.

However I have always wondered if that is a shadow, or is it decoration on the gate. Your demonstration seems to confirm it as a shadow.