Diemschutz arrival

[Fisherman]

S H Jack:

"My point was I think the idea of the killer looking up to to see a pony in front of him is absurd I am sure he would have heard it approaching over cobbles long before it arrived at the yard entrance. So interrupted may be the wrong term to use alerted to the approach of someone is how I would word it."

One thing that relates to this is that all victims had their necks cut to the bone - save Stride. And if the killer heard Diemschitz´pony trotting along for some serious time, then surely he would have had sufficient time to cut all the way...?

So maybe if he was disturbed, he was disturbed by something else than Pickford´s Pr...sorry, Diemschitz´pony? Like somebody grabbing the handle of the club door from the inside, opening it?

Stride is a hard nut.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Miakaal4:

"Was this a men only place by the way?"

The club? No. One of the clubsmen walked his girlfriend home from the club before returning that night. Women were there regularly.

The best,
Fisherman

[Spring heeled Jim]

I agree with what you say fisherman that it could have been anything that disturbed the killer. Its just my opinion if that when the body was discovered blood was still flowing from the wound, such is my understanding feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that the timing suggests it was Dimshits approach that disturbed the killer.

To keep the thread on track yes I do think the killer was spooked in the act by a sound as opposed to being interrupted in the act by Dimshits.

If the neck wound in this case wasn't as deep as others that could to me suggest it was rushed due the fact he was in the process of subduing Stride when he heard someone approaching so couldn't finish the job properly but had to hastily ensure she wouldn't survive.

All supposition and guesswork on my part I know but it makes sense to me seems is logical and does not require any outlandish theories or wild scenarios.

[Fisherman]

S H Jim:

"when the body was discovered blood was still flowing from the wound, such is my understanding feel free to correct me if I am wrong, that the timing suggests it was Dimshits approach that disturbed the killer."

Bleeding out will be a fast business if all the major vessels of the neck are severed, as was the case with for example Nichols. Stride, though, had only one of her arteries opened, and it was not cut straight off. It is therefore hard to say how long she would have bled. But we can probably bank on it being a comparatively slow process compared to the other canonicals, leaving the field open for different interpretations.

The best,
Fisherman

[miakaal4]

Thanks Fisherman, This leads me to believe that the club is nothing to do with why she is there. I mean if she wanted to pick up a punter from there why not go inside?
It seems likely that she was with a punter, in the dark when she was killed. That she led or was leading him to a dark place, he heard the horse approaching and maybe thought that sound would cover any noise he made to anyone within earshot. What he didn't envisage was the horse coming straight to them. As soon as it pulled into the yard he flicked back into the dark and waited his opportunity to escape.
Controversially, I do not believe the two men Schwartz said he saw were involved. The kill happened ten minutes later.

[Spring heeled Jim]

Very true fisherman but the approach of a horse would fit nicely with my idea that whatever disturbed the killer did so in a manner that enabled him to have sufficient time to hide/get away. The approach of a horse and cart would I assume have been audible for some time prior to them reaching the yard whereas as person on foot?

As for the bleeding out well I am no medical expert so couldn't comment as it would just be guesswork. I just work on my own reasoning that if blood is still flowing the interval between wound and discovery of body can't have been that long but as I say I am no medical expert and for all I know blood could still flow 15 minutes after the wound was inflicted?

[DVV]

Some posters are still underestimating what has been done to Stride. Somebody cut her throat. Skillfully and quickly. She died within seconds and nothing could have saved her. The job was done and well done.

[Spring heeled Jim]

DVV what makes you think it was an expert job? And what is your opinion on Dimshits interrupting the killer to keep the thread on track. Sorry if I have missed an earlier post if you have already stated your opinion on the matter.

[lynn cates]

impulse

Hello Harry. Thanks.

How do we know that Liz's assailant chose to cut her throat rather than acting on impulse?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

forensic details

Hello Tom. Yes, but, if I recall properly, Rob would equate this club man with BS. That's fine. But the forensic details MUST match.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

self defense

Hello Jim. Welcome to the boards.

Essentially, I agree with your ruminations here. I think it was planned, but difficult to establish as such.

However, it was not entirely uncommon for an East End gent to carry a knife for self defense.

Cheers.
LC

[Spring heeled Jim]

Hello Lynn thanks for the welcome. Without wishing to swerve the thread away from it's initial point re Dimshits arrival I have to say that the impulsive throat cutting would strike me as odd.

Surely if it was a spontaneous rage anger type attack the presumed initial subduing via hands would have been the spontaneous act and to then produce a knife would imply some kind of planning?

I still would like peoples opinions on whether they think she was subdued first and if so were two hands used?

I think getting a general opinion as to how she was killed would actually go some to then being able to form an opinion if there was an interruption of the killing or not.

Hope that made sense?

[lynn cates]

George Lewis

Hello Tom.

"However, it's also possible that she was killed by a different man than was Eddowes, and the two were working in tandem."

That was George Lewis' position. He was nigh on certain of it.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

location

Hello (again) Jim.

"And if premeditated and not JTR then why such a dicey location?"

Put simply, if one wishes the club closed (sworn enemy) then what better motive than a dead body adjacent and a cry of, "See, told you this would happen, unless you closed the club and sent those anarchists back whence they came!"

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

agreed

Hello Neil.

"I feel in was more a manipulation, a pulling of Stride via her scarf into position than a strangling."

Good grief! We agree again.

Cheers.
LC