Stride Bruising

[Hunter]

I didn't. I was only referring to the pocket.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn. I don't see why the killer would have had to 'work' anything 'loose'. She would have put the money in his hand.

As for Cris claiming that Chapman would have been “deaded than a doorknob“ when her rings were scratched off her

I didn't see him say that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious4]

Stinky geraniums

I have been puzzling over why geraniums should stink - mine don't - and came across a rfeference to something called "stinky bob" aka herb robert, which is said to smell like burning tyres.

Could this be what you call a geranium in the U,S.? Perhaps I should have said pelargonia?
Dickens calls it a geranium, as one does in England. Or are american geraniums grown originally from "stinky Bob" and do smell bad?

Best wishes,
C4

[lynn cates]

disturbing

Hello Tom. Thanks.

"the tissue paper would lodge, like paper money, between the thumb and forefinger; the smaller, heavier coins would be in the palm."

Agreed. The tissue holding the cachous would be between the thumb and forefinger; the coin/s would be clenched under the other 3 fingers.

And I am wondering how he managed to work the coin/s loose without disturbing the cachous only a fraction of an inch away?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

>1

Hello Maria. Such as different blokes.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

So you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time? That must account for my confusion.

As I was saying, if she handed him her money, which apparently she did, since she should have had some on her, and didn't, and her clothes were not interfered with after death, then he wouldn't have had cause to ask her to empty her pockets.

This is a possibility indeed, but haven't you ever been asked by a teacher to empty your pockets? Don't they always say “the other ones too“? (Followed by a beating, lol.)

Plus, what do you make of no objects lying around Stride's feet, unlike with the others?

At any rate, the ONLY relevance the cachous have for me is to indicate that it was a super quick, swift attack. (This awaiting for Cris to hand over his other case with the woman who died holding stuff, that is, after he digests his barbecue and drinks.)

As for Cris claiming that Chapman would have been “deaded than a doorknob“ when her rings were scratched off her, would she have bled from her fingers postmortem?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Hunter. Let me have some of the bbq and I might tell you something you don't know.

Hi Maria. So you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time? That must account for my confusion. As I was saying, if she handed him her money, which apparently she did, since she should have had some on her, and didn't, and her clothes were not interfered with after death, then he wouldn't have had cause to ask her to empty her pockets. Hunter tells us he didn't do this with Chapman, which might of course be correct, but as Chapman had no money and would have had to confess as much, he took her rings instead.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Hunter]

Compare this with Annie Chapman, who had no money, and told her killer this. She was then told to empty her pockets, which she did. The items were knocked to the ground by her feet, being worthless. The killer then took the rings from her fingers...this was done while she was living, you know.

Chapman's 'pockets' were similar to a modern nail apron used by construction workers; tied around the waste with an attached string. It would have been under her outer garments. This was the one item that Chapman's murderer ripped apart... after she was deader than a doornob.

[mariab]

That's literally the entire point I've been making and that you've been disagreeing with.

Tom, I'm NOT disagreeing at all with what you're saying about chachous clinging to coins etc.! :-)

If my interpretation is correct, then clearly the money and cachous were in a pocket all their own. Stride had many in which to use.

Agree again, and THAT'S where my problem with the (faked) mugging comes from. He would have asked her to empty ALL her pockets. Plus there was no stuff around her feet on the ground other than the cachous Dr. Johnston apparently spilled.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria. If my interpretation is correct, then clearly the money and cachous were in a pocket all their own. Stride had many in which to use.

I've experienced numerous times that a friend is seeking for change in their pockets to pay for coffee and they come out with buttons, gum, little objects like that in addition to change.

That's literally the entire point I've been making and that you've been disagreeing with.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Compare this with Annie Chapman, who had no money, and told her killer this. She was then told to empty her pockets, which she did. The items were knocked to the ground by her feet, being worthless. The killer then took the rings from her fingers...this was done while she was living, you know.

With this part I completely agree, esp. with Chapman still being alive causing the intendations on her fingers from her rings being removed hastily/brutally.

If robbed, Stride would reach in her money pocket, not attempt to hand him a spoon and thread and such.

Yes, but my point Tom was that it looks like if she didn't touch her undergarment pocket, which looks like an unlikely mugging. And if she was careful, she might have kept her money in her most well hidden pocket. Plus she had intact buttons in her pocket. I've experienced numerous times that a friend is seeking for change in their pockets to pay for coffee and they come out with buttons, gum, little objects like that in addition to change.
Also, unlike with 2 other C5, there were not any items knocked to the ground by Stride's feet. To me cachous qualify as almost food, which is self explanatory that Stride might have held them out previous to the encounter with her assailant.

[Tom_Wescott]

If the coin/s and the cachous were ALL between thumb and forefinger, how could he dislodge one but not the other?

They of course wouldn't have been. the tissue paper would lodge, like paper money, between the thumb and forefinger; the smaller, heavier coins would be in the palm.

Maria,

If robbed, Stride would reach in her money pocket, not attempt to hand him a spoon and thread and such. Compare this with Annie Chapman, who had no money, and told her killer this. She was then told to empty her pockets, which she did. The items were knocked to the ground by her feet, being worthless. The killer then took the rings from her fingers...this was done while she was living, you know.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Yes, Maria, I do. And Debs has quite a bit on it too.

Perhaps you or Debs would be interested in posting said newspaper report, for comparison to Stride's cachous?

"But this doesn't necessarily mean that the Ripper used the exact same MO on every single victim."
Quite true. But I can think of another reason.

Such as, Lynn?

[lynn cates]

reasons and reasons

Hello Maria.

"But this doesn't necessarily mean that the Ripper used the exact same MO on every single victim."

Quite true. But I can think of another reason.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

PS.: Cris, do you have details/a press report on that case where there was a struggle and the body was still holding items in her hands postmortem?

Yes, Maria, I do. And Debs has quite a bit on it too.