Stride Bruising

[Jon Guy]

Thanks C4, I can see it now.

A much better indicator of strangulation than the slightly lacerated tongue

Thanks for that.

[curious4]

Signs

Hello Jon,

You're welcome.

Cheers,
C4

[Michael W Richards]

Hi all,

We must remember that choking is not strangulation, and that strangulation or choking do cut off the breath, but neither do not necessarily induce an unconscious state. Only if the pressure is continued to induce such a state.

Annie was choked....so was Liz. But my sense is that Annie was choked to unconsciousness, whereas Liz Strides scarf was grabbed and twisted in her attack and she may have been cut while falling. There may have been little time to get Liz to pass out before her cut...and her killer may have had no desire to make that happen anyway.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

thrown down

Hello DLDW. thanks.

"Schwartz provides a quite sound explanation for the bruising."

Yes, indeed. But not sure how Liz could be thrown down yet the mud and water on left side only.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

signs and wonders

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

The "improved kill" model? Hopefully, not trial and error.

Try here for the mock killing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a95rqNxxbiM

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

I'll bite.

Hello Jon. Biting the tongue could be one such sign.

Cheers.
LC

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hello DLDW. thanks.

"Schwartz provides a quite sound explanation for the bruising."

Yes, indeed. But not sure how Liz could be thrown down yet the mud and water on left side only.

Cheers.
LC

His statement said that BSM threw her on the pavement. That could account for the lack of mud. I'm personally becoming more skeptical of Schwartz. But I'm not willing to disregard him yet. More data is needed. He provides a reasonable enough explanation. It's just not quite enough to take it as gospel. Your point being one of many to consider.

[GregBaron]

Bangers and Mash...

But no clear signs of strangulation.

Hi Jon, I think there would be signs of a struggle if she wasn’t throttled…meaning Polly...I think Lynn's suggestion for Stride a viable one..

Yes, indeed. But not sure how Liz could be thrown down yet the mud and water on left side only.

I’ve got a brilliant idea Lynn, she was thrown on her left side..!

(Yet I am called "idiot" for remarking the difference.)

On Casebook? Surely not Lynn…

I'm not just talking inter-femoral, that is safe sex, I mean conventional intercourse from the rear, and as I mentioned elsewhere, anal sex was also an option.

Heaven forbid…I thought they banged up against fences….If copulating as you suggest, he’d be banging her head against the wall……………rather unpleasant


Greg

[Bridewell]

Hair pulling might make her scream, pulling a scarf tight might gag any vocal response.
.

As in "screamed three times but not very loud" perhaps?

[Bridewell]

But surely "scarf knotted tightly" and "scarf pulled tight" would imply choking?

Why would her killer knot the scarf? Use it, yes, but knot it?
It's just idle speculation but, in view of what was happening to local women late at night, did Liz Stride perhaps knot her own scarf tight in the (misguided) belief that the knot would protect her throat from attack?

[Wickerman]

I’ve got a brilliant idea Lynn, she was thrown on her left side..!

So how'd she get mud on her right side too?

"Examining her jacket I found that although there was a slight amount of mud on the right side, the left was well plastered with mud."

Transfer?, or is there another twist in the method?

[Cogidubnus]

Muddying the pool

Possibly being thrown down on "the footway" she got a limited amount of dirt on both sides of her clothing, and subsequently in the semi-surfaced Dutfields Yard got her left side more liberally plastered?

Note I'm not predicating one attack or two...it could have been two phases of the same incident...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

skeptical

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

"His statement said that BSM threw her on the pavement."

One version has "footpath" if I recall properly.

"That could account for the lack of mud."

perhaps. But what of the wetness?

"I'm personally becoming more skeptical of Schwartz. But I'm not willing to disregard him yet."

Nor yet I. He may be truthful after all.

"More data is needed. He provides a reasonable enough explanation. It's just not quite enough to take it as gospel. Your point being one of many to consider."

Indeed.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

gently Bentley

Hello Greg. Thanks.

"I’ve got a brilliant idea Lynn, she was thrown on her left side..!"

Ah! And gently thrown, too. (And why not? If we can have non-loud screams, why not gentle throws?)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

empirical details

Hello Colin.

"Why would her killer knot the scarf? Use it, yes, but knot it?
It's just idle speculation but, in view of what was happening to local women late at night, did Liz Stride perhaps knot her own scarf tight in the (misguided) belief that the knot would protect her throat from attack?"

If you take a scarf with a slip knot, and pull on one tail, the radius will decrease, thus tightening it. If pulled by a left hand around the shoulder (as in my re-enactment), the knot will migrate left. (This was also demonstrated in my re-enactment.)

Cheers.
LC