Arbeter Fraint's Take

[Cogidubnus]

You asked what identifiable remains there would be.
Of course you are being 'funny'.

No..no....I'm sorry Debra, I'm not being funny...not at all..I'm being straight...give me the answer and I'll back down...unreservedly....

Dave

[Wickerman]

Well, this doctor managed to spot some
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How we all wish doctors were equally able....ahh, for a perfect world

Stride also had part digested food in her stomach, perhaps also your "Madam" whatsits was in perfect health, whereas East-end unfortunates not eating regularly or healthy, might have a more acidic digestive system.

If Phillips & Blackwell can't agree on who picked up the cachou's what else may they have been mistaken about?

Regards, Jon S.
I just looked at my watch, good grief, what are you doing up so late?
Oops, sorry, we've changed our clocks already

[Debra A]

Yes, Stride's stomach contained partially digested food which was identified by the docs.
Was Stride just holding the grapes so she could gaze at them , or in the process of eating them? Was her stomach acid so strong it digested the grapes on contact?

[Cogidubnus]

I'm a relative newbie Debs...advise me...I'm not being funny....

Dave

[mariab]

Interesting article. I think it fairly clear from reading it that Schwartz was not a member of the club and had no connection to it in anyway. It would also rule out Wess being Schwartz's interpreter.

I assume you're referring to the Echo/Scotsman report, and not to the Star about the police allegedly not trusting Schwartz?
Sometimes one has to read between the lines, Rob. Why would Wess waste time mentioning an uncorroborated second hand story to a journalist? William Wess was a relatively successful businessman and a politician of sorts, he wasn't some wannabe self-important old lady running her mouth to anyone who would listen, à la Fanny Mortimer, just to be in the papers and maybe make a buck (OK: a penny) in the process.
Rob, sometimes ;-) I think you're sooo the minimalist that your right arm is not taking into consideration what the left arm's doing. Which is actually pretty useful for a photographer. By the by, mid next week I hope to go take a look at the inventaries for Bertillon at the Paris Archives Nationales, if you're interested.

Great find, Debs. But why does the name “Mme Chantrelle“ sound kinda familiar to me? Might I inquire what case this refers to?

Bearing in mind the total lack of reference to him, in what is after all the most contemporary and relevant work, and in the following issue too, did Schwartz even exist?

And Abberline and Swanson who interviewed Schwartz talked to the wind. But of course the grapes existed, only Schwartz did not. I'm afraid that this is where the future of the boards is leading to. This and impressionist Ripperology.
Cogidubnus, a well-meant advice: Before engaging in debate, usually the first step is to be minimally acquainted with the subject of discussion (here: Berner Street and the different players in the Stride case). Buy or borrow from the library Phillip Sugden's book on JTR, and as a reference for the sources, buy JTR: The Ultimate companion by Stewart P. Evans and Keith Skinner (which is featured on amazon also second hand). Consider subscribing to the Ripperological electronic magazines (Ripperologist, Examiner, The New Independent Review) so that you can follow up on the latest research and developments. I assure you that getting informed would help you participate in the debates without such excruciating embarrassment as your last posts here. Not to mention that you have NO comprehension whatsoever of how the digestion process works, which in itself is not a huge lacuna, but again, when one decides to talk about something, it generally helps to have some degree of acquaintance with the subject.

[Cogidubnus]

Yeah thanks MariaB, I've got all those and more besides...I've been on here just a few weeks, I've been interested in JTR forty years or more...I don't need your well meaning condescension

Dave

[mariab]

Condenscension brought upon to you by not getting informed or even thinking before talking (typing). It's easily remedied: If you really own The Ultimate, consult it. And read up on who Matthew Packer was. (Which might require subscribing to a couple Ripper mags.)

[Cogidubnus]

Condenscension brought upon to you by not getting informed or even thinking before talking (typing). It's easily remedied: If you really own The Ultimate, consult it. And read up on who Matthew Packer was.

So tossing a couple of insults about a fruiterer is what passes as logical argument in your circles? I'm sorry....forget it...I didn't say it....Maria-world is safe and secure...

Dave

[lynn cates]

In me thou seest the glowing of such fire, as on the ashes of his youth doth lie.

Hello Jon.

"Lynn, it's what keeps the fires burning."

Well, if I thought it could not be solved, I'd let 'em burn down.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Schwartz

Hello Rob. That's the impression I get as well. Of course, IF there were a good reason for the lower level police to begin to doubt Schwartz, then it might be prudent to let sleeping dogs lie.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

obliteration

Hello Debs. Thanks for that.

Hmm, I wonder how long before the HCl obliterates the traces?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon.

"Lynn, it's what keeps the fires burning."

Well, if I thought it could not be solved, I'd let 'em burn down.

Cheers.
LC

Ahh Lynn, just ignore the pessimist in me, ..."this thing will never be solved!". But that doesn't mean no-one should try.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

proving him wrong

Hello Jon. Hmm, reminds me of the story of the couple whom the doctor pronounced incapable of becoming parents. But they had great fun trying to prove him wrong. (Heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Thanks for that.

Hmm, I wonder how long before the HCl obliterates the traces?

Cheers.
LC

Lynn, obviously not instantly going by doctors being able to recognise "The solid masses were readily recognised by ocular inspection as portions of half-digested grapes and orange." in a Madame's case.
Liz was holding the grapes in her hand presumably because she was still busy eating them? Maybe right up until the moment of her death even? And the docs didn't see anything resembling grape flesh at all? Yet they managed to pick out cheese, potato and a farinaceous substance?
How did they identify the farinaceous substance-a chemical test for starch perhaps? If, so, then why wouldn't they have gone the whole hog and tested for fruit acids too?

[Rob Clack]

Hi Rob

Bearing in mind the total lack of reference to him, in what is after all the most contemporary and relevant work, and in the following issue too, did Schwartz even exist?

Dave

Is that a trick question?

Rob