Liz Stride Re-Enactment

[corey123]

Well then why go through all the trouble of asphixiation then just to cut her throat? I am not saying it isn't possible, just speculation.

I understand that only 25% of strangulation victims have signs, but the fact is, in this case, there were none. So it would be speculation to include it into the senerio.

[Garza]

Garza,

Its specualtion to adress a time window. She could have died anywhere from 12:45-12:59.

We just don't know.

True, that is why I said that if the killer was disturbed, it probably wasn't Mr. D.

The time frame probably was 12:44-12:48 or 12:55-12:59.

I wouldn't be saying these probable time windows if Stein hadn't backed up Mrs. Mortimer's testimony.

[corey123]

Hello Garza,

Dont forget that when Diemschizt found the body that he went inside the club to se if his wife was ok,then to return with Eagle and Kozebrodsky and then he probaly calculated the time as 1:00. I would deduct at least 2-3 minutes for that. So it turns out that it is very likely that he found Stride earlier than 1:00.

Just a thought

[Garza]

Well then why go through all the trouble of asphixiation then just to cut her throat? I am not saying it isn't possible, just speculation.

I understand that only 25% of strangulation victims have signs, but the fact is, in this case, there were none. So it would be speculation to include it into the senerio.

Less messy.

With only 25% of strangulation victims having signs, you should definitely not rule it out.

[corey123]

Hello Garza,


No no no, I am not ruling it ouot. Quite the contrary actually. Only pointing out that it is speculatory.

[Garza]

Hello Garza,

Dont forget that when Diemschizt found the body that he went inside the club to se if his wife was ok,then to return with Eagle and Kozebrodsky and then he probaly calculated the time as 1:00. I would deduct at least 2-3 minutes for that. So it turns out that it is very likely that he found Stride earlier than 1:00.

Just a thought

Could be.

[mariab]

Garza wrote:
Push someone against a wall with something in their hand, 9 times out of 10 they will retain whats in their hand.
Not at all. Years ago, a fellow grad student forcefully pushed me against a wall during a conference while I was holding some papers. The only reason I didn't drop the papers is because I shoved them in his face. (After having spent about 20´´seconds with a dropped jaw out of surprise.) Plus I don't necessarily assume the pushed-against-the-wall scenario for Stride's slaying.

Garza wrote:
Out of interet why would you trust PC Smith for time? He said he came to the crime scene at 1am, he clearly did not.
He said at 1.00 a.m.? I wasn't aware of that! (I'm a newbie.) I just assumed he had a clock available between making rounds.

Corey123 wrote:
Only free sessions if you like the idea of having a thearapist as nutty as we are. If not, the price stays at 45$ a session.
Fits with the extreme nuttiness of the patient. $45 for a session? Way too much! I just payed $60 (or rather, 60-€) for a one way flight ticket to Paris (with sleazyjet, the most unpredictable airline of all).

[c.d.]

[QUOTE=Ben;153759]If Schwartz wasn't lying, we may consider it a near certainty that she was killed by the broad-shouldered man.

I don't get involved in Stride threads very regularly as I have tended to remain "on the fence" regarding most issues, acknowledging the merit in most arguments, both against and in favour of Stride as a ripper victim. The only scenario that I continue to resist very strongly is the idea that Stride was attacked by two successive, yet entirely separate individuals at the same location and in a very short space of time. It posits the existence of a ludicrous coincidence, and it really isn't needed to explain the presence of cachous in Stride's hand.

Hi Ben,

As long as you (not you personally) insist on calling what the BS man did an "attack" as opposed to an occupational hazard and fail to take into account the circumstances, i.e., a single woman standing by herself late at night as opposed to being in a group of churchgoers on a Sunday afternoon,then you are almost forced to reach that conlusion. But you also have to dismiss the very possible idea that the BS man simply cursed her out and went on his way.

c.d.

[corey123]

Hello Maria,

Indeed. The price is so high because no doctor wants a ripperologist as a patient.

[Ben]

Hi CD,

What Schwartz reported was a bodily assault by the broad-shouldered man on a defenceless woman whom he later identified as Stride. It was indisputably an "attack".

Best regards,
Ben

[mariab]

I think C.D. has been strongly influenced by what he witnessed on the street in D.C. a couple months ago (see "A modern day Liz").
To Corey:
I've never been to a shrink. And therein, probably, lies the problem.

[corey123]

Hello Maria,

Well lets just say your doomed. You have been to a rip conf, your a ripperologist. Just like all of us, nutty too. We all suffer from this disease that plagues us.

[Roy Corduroy]

Lynn, kindly send my appreciation to your wife for her portraying the era with appropriate dress.

As for you, Lynn, where is your cutaway jacket? Come to think of it, where is your pocket protector?

Roy Corduroy

[c.d.]

Hi Maria,

I don't like the domestic argument for several reasons. And by domestic, I mean Kidney or someone else that Liz may have been involved with or someone she met earlier in the evening. I am assuming, for the sake of argument, that her killer in the domestic scenario is motivated by anger. My first problem is how did she end up in the yard where she was found? If she is confronted by an angry man, does she really want to go back into the yard to "discuss" things? I wouldn't think so. On the other hand, if at the time, her killer appears calm and reasonable, why would there be a need to go into the yard? Wouldn't they simply have carried out their conversation on the street?

I also find it unusual that this great rage that fueled the killing is not preceded by an argument that anybody hears. Both Mrs. Diemschitz and Morris Eagle stated that even though there was singing, they were certain that they would have heard the sounds of an argument.

In a domestic scenario, we are forced to accept the zero to sixty rage of her killer. While possible, I think it is much more probable that there would have been a progression in the argument with Liz being slapped about. Yet, there were no signs of that. She was also killed with a single cut to the throat, no stab wounds anywhere else. But if great rage fueled this killing, wouldn't the killer have stabbed repeatedly in venting his anger? Are we to believe that after one cut, he was suddenly snapped back into rational behavior?

And finally, we have the police report stating that they couldn't find anyone in Liz's life with motivation for killing her. Yes, the police could have missed it, but the report is all we have.

Now I know that Fisherman and others have given plausible answers to all these questions but I don't by them especially since we have a killer, Jack (if you believe he killed Kate) doing his thing a short time and distance away.

c.d.

[mariab]

To Corey:
Well, the “attack“ (shoved against the wall) didn't occur at a Ripperological conference! (Although that might have been fitting.) I'm not sure I'm a Ripperologist yet. Just a newbie with a severe addiction to casebook. But for the nuts part, I'll concede:100% guilty. That's why we all get on so well and got addicted to the site, I reckon.