was she a Ripper victim?

[lynn cates]

Baxter

Hello Garza.

"all the doctors/surgeons that studied the Ripper murders in 1888 agreed that Stride was a ripper victim"

Are you certain of that? You might glance at the Stride inquest. Note Wynne Baxter's summary based upon the 2 medical examiners who examined Liz.

Cheers.
LC

[Garza]

More for:

on back and head facing left when throat was cut
no struggle or screams heard despite many witnesses in the near vicinity
neck cut in the same way as Eddowes only less deep
all the doctors/surgeons that studied the Ripper murders in 1888 agreed that Stride was a ripper victim

[Garza]

Medical examination revealed that Kate Eddowes' tongue was swollen and protruding, Garza. In other words, asphyxia was clearly a component of the Mitre Square murder.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Interesting! I could be mistaken, but if I remember, no bruises or lesions were found on the neck of Eddowes. Which means brusing is not a definte by product of strangulation.

[Hunter]

Hi Gary,

I would be interested in the medical report you refer to. At the inquest, Dr. Sanders was called to give evidence on whether any narcotics were in Kate's stomach; implying that she may have been drugged. Obviously, at that time they were still contemplating on how she was subdued.

My opinion is that both Stride and Eddowes were asphyxiated by some undertermined method because of the lack of arterial spray in both cases; the usual signs not being as obvious as with Nichols and Chapman.

[Garry Wroe]

I have wondered about that myself. Why did Stride and Eddowes show no sign of strangulation? Clearly Nichols and Chapman were strangled by the killer's hands - bruises. I'm no forensic scientist but is there markings in every strangulation event?

Medical examination revealed that Kate Eddowes' tongue was swollen and protruding, Garza. In other words, asphyxia was clearly a component of the Mitre Square murder.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Garza]

sunflower, first off, welcome. Second, tackling the case of Stride's murder is a complicated process lol, no-one should tackle it without first reading Gavin Bromley's Smith's beat

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...iths-beat.html

[Garza]

I don't know about Stride being classified as a 'Ripper' victim... but a strong case can be made that she could be linked with Eddowes due to the facts that their throat wounds were very similar and it is still a mystery as to how they were placed on the ground without obvious signs of strangulation... let alone the other similarities mentioned. Outside of the lack of mutilation in one, the method of dispatch seems very similar.

Yes I agree Stride and Eddowes murders were similar. The cut at the neck started at the same exact point as each other.

The previous two 'canonicals' showed signs of strangulation and experienced much deeper and repetitive throat wounds. Of course they were on different nights with their own unique circumtances.

I have wondered about that myself. Why did Stride and Eddowes show no sign of strangulation? Clearly Nichols and Chapman were strangled by the killer's hands - bruises. I'm no forensic scientist but is there markings in every strangulation event? I read somewhere that marks do no always appear, not too sure tho. Also Nichols and Chapman were far more "rotund" than Stride and Eddowes, does fatty flesh bruise more easily?

[lynn cates]

double event

Hello Hunter. Yours is the best post I've seen in many a day. I think I may love you. (heh-heh)

Double event MAY just refer to 2 killed as part of same stratagem--not same hand.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

I don't know about Stride being classified as a 'Ripper' victim... but a strong case can be made that she could be linked with Eddowes due to the facts that their throat wounds were very similar and it is still a mystery as to how they were placed on the ground without obvious signs of strangulation... let alone the other similarities mentioned. Outside of the lack of mutilation in one, the method of dispatch seems very similar.

The previous two 'canonicals' showed signs of strangulation and experienced much deeper and repetitive throat wounds. Of course they were on different nights with their own unique circumtances.

In other words, instead of trying to link Stride with Nichols, Chapman or Kelly. Her murder in relation to Eddowes should be considered before any broader correlation is attempted; realizing that these are all individual unsolved murders linked by some common characteristics.

[sdreid]

More for:

Most authorities at the time thought she was and they should know

Differences explainable due to interruption

[corey123]

Hello Sunflower,

If you want you can take a look at my thread "Did JTR kill Liz Stride."

Its a bit long but worth the read.

[sunflower]

I have been trying to make sense of some the evidence for and against Elizabeth Stride being a Ripper victim. I've tried to make a For and Against list. Can anyone tell me if I am missing anything as it helps to get things straight in my head.

For:

same victim class (age/also possibly same occupation);
usual time of attack;
same M.O. in mode of death (throat cut);
same vicinity;
seen with unknown male shortly before death.

Against:

no mutilations;
attacker of Eddowes possibly travelling back towards scene of Stride crime, which wouldn't make sense if it was the Ripper since he surely would be aware the area would be populated by investigating Police officers;
possibility of Stride being involved in domestic violence case (and possibly due to date someone that night) -(if anyone has any more information about that and her relationship with Kidney I'd be really interested in that);
seen in argument shortly before death...surely the Ripper would not draw attention to himself in such a way if he was about to murder her? Would such a man have been able to be so calm such a short time after as to be observed by Lawende almost in a lover's embrace with Eddowes?

I'd appreciate any comments/suggestions.