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  • Lipski

    Has anyone ever wondered whether the call of 'Lipski' mentioned by witness could actually have been 'Lizzie'.
    I am just pondering this as it would help make the murder of Liz more of a 'domestic' IMO.

  • #2
    Hi Maggyann,

    Even if the assailant yelled 'Lizzie,' it only shows a familiarity with the victim. It doesn't necessarily point to Michael Kidney.

    I wrote an article for Ripperologist magazine in 2003 that is here on the Casebook. I briefly covered the possibility that 'Lizzie' was shouted. I was not the first to suggest this possible scenario either.

    Elizabeth Stride was known to many as 'Long Liz'. Schwartz was insistent, when questioned by Abberline, that he did not know who was being spoken to. If Stride's attacker was not speaking to either Schwartz or the man with the pipe then he could have been speaking to the victim, calling out 'Lizzie', instead of 'Lipski'. If that were the case, then it suggests a familiarity between Stride and her assailant. It could have been a regular client, or even her lover, Michael Kidney. (Ripperologist 45, March 2003)
    http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-lipski.html

    Cheers,

    Robert

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    • #3
      Thank you for that. Much appreciated.

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice one Rob-
        "Lizzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaayyyyy!!!" is slightly amusing I suppose- but if Kidney was about to do for said Lizzie (Long or not!) would he have announced it! ... I think not!!!!- Exactly- Lipski is the most likely- and that's before we get to Pipeman etc etc

        Suz xxx
        'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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        • #5
          Lizzie!

          If my memory serves me right, I believe "Fisherman" wrote a dissertation some time ago on this subject as well; giving the view that "Lizzie" was what BS man had yelled. I don't have the link, but it can be found on the dissertation page on this site.
          Best Wishes,
          Hunter
          ____________________________________________

          When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

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          • #6
            Maybe someone can correct me on this but assuming Schwartz's testimony is true can we be sure that the BS man was calling Schwartz "Lipski" or the pipeman "Lipski", as far as I can tell Schwartz was not looking at the BS man when this was called.

            Was he calling Liz a "Lipski"? This BS man was under the influence of alcohol, he passes past a Jewish club with a lady (Liz) outside it. In his toxification and dislike of Jews, he jostles her around a bit. Liz doesn't scream loud because she recognises him as a drunk, she would have come across many.
            The BS man notices there are witnesses to the attack and shouts at them "Lipski" while pointing at Liz, meaning she is a jew and deserved to be attacked, she is nobody. Schwartz was walking away from the attack so he assumed that the BS man was directing Lipski at him.

            I also think that the heavy footsteps that Mrs Mortimer heard past her house was BS man walking away form the scene.

            Ah if only the pipe man testified.

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            • #7
              My own view is that Kidney killed Stride out of jealousy and rage.

              He'd either followed her or tracked her down (just possibly come across her by accident). he finds her with her new fella (who'd treated her nice, given her a bit of velvet material to make up, and been with her all evening.

              The new fella is Jewish (Stride is said to have worked in a Jewish household and possibly to have spoken Yiddish).

              Kidney tries to drag Stride back home (out of the yard) but she resists. Her Jewish fella either retreats at Kidney's approach, or had just left Stride. He pauses appalled by what he is seeing but perhaps because he is married or needs to be discrete, he is frightened about intervening.

              Kidney knows who he is as he has seen Stride and the man together. Kidney calls out "Lipski" at the man - both taunting him along the lines of "No Jew is going to have/take my woman" and bringing to mind the Lipski case of only a few months before where a man killed his lover.

              No proof, just supposition, but to me it brings together and fits quite a lot of the facts in the Stride case.

              Now blow me out of the water, folks!

              Phil

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              • #8
                POOF! You're out of the water.

                Yours truly,

                Tom Wescott

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                • #9
                  And you're firing blanks!!

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                  • #10
                    Hi Phil,

                    Since you are now out of the water per Tom and now fair game -- You would have to wonder why Kidney would not flee town after having been seen by Schwartz. He has to be the prime suspect in the killing.

                    c.d.

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                    • #11
                      And thus....

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                      • #12
                        Hi Phil,

                        Well, unless Kidney was a total idiot, he would have to realize that he would be the prime suspect in the case. Since the police had an eyewitness (Schwartz), it would have to occur to him that Schwartz could/would be asked to identify him. If I had been Kidney, and had killed Liz and been seen by Schwartz, I would have hauled ass. But hey, that's just me.

                        c.d.

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                        • #13
                          I always thought it was Aaron Kosminski who was assaulting Stride then called out to Schwartz 'Lipski' (kind of like 'F off' I guess) who then ran away down the street. There was also a man with a pipe and hat standing at the door of the club who watched the whole thing. I think he came to Liz Stride's rescue from the assault and that he was Jack the Ripper. Sort of like ran to her aid so to speak to give off the impression he was helping her. Which would explain why this witness never came forward or was identified.
                          Jordan

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ChainzCooper View Post
                            I always thought it was Aaron Kosminski who was assaulting Stride then called out to Schwartz 'Lipski' (kind of like 'F off' I guess) who then ran away down the street. There was also a man with a pipe and hat standing at the door of the club who watched the whole thing. I think he came to Liz Stride's rescue from the assault and that he was Jack the Ripper. Sort of like ran to her aid so to speak to give off the impression he was helping her. Which would explain why this witness never came forward or was identified.
                            Jordan
                            Also there was another couple about 20 yards away at the corner of the board school from the whole incident, whom were never questioned at all it seems. They would have seen everything except the murder in the yard.

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                            • #15
                              What are your thoughts on my theory Garza?
                              Jordan

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