Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Have you seen this?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Have you seen this?

    A recent article about Stride from a swedish local newspaper.

    It is in swedish, but has a few pictures that may or may not be interesting to you. The story about JTR and Stride starts in page 30. The pictures show some of her swedish relatives and the house she was born in. Apparently her nephew (small black & white picture) mentions her briefly in his memoirs. The grave of her brother Carl Berhard Gustafsson has also been traced.

    http://www.tidningen.se/pdf/2009_v52.pdf

    I looked for it here but could not find it so apologize if you've already seen this. I am new here.

  • #2
    Excellent Lina. I'll have to find someone to translate the text for me but I haven't seen this posted before.
    Best Wishes,
    Hunter
    ____________________________________________

    When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lina View Post
      A recent article about Stride from a swedish local newspaper.

      It is in swedish, but has a few pictures that may or may not be interesting to you. The story about JTR and Stride starts in page 30. The pictures show some of her swedish relatives and the house she was born in. Apparently her nephew (small black & white picture) mentions her briefly in his memoirs. The grave of her brother Carl Berhard Gustafsson has also been traced.

      http://www.tidningen.se/pdf/2009_v52.pdf

      I looked for it here but could not find it so apologize if you've already seen this. I am new here.
      Hello Lina,

      Thanks for your contribution and welcome indeed!

      I will translate a few of the main points...

      Born 1843
      Stor Tumlehed, Torslanda.
      After her confirmation, moved to Gothenburg.
      Started work as housemaid, different places.
      Became pregnant, and at this time a single woman in this condition was regarded with bringing great shame and scandal.
      A stillborn baby girl was born, in the 7th month of pregnancy.
      As time went on..her social position became worse and worse, falling ever deeper into prostitution.
      In 1867 she was advised to leave Gothenburg, to avoid even more social stigma.
      She decided to start anew in London.
      Here she found work and narried an older man
      Whether they had children or not is unsure.
      The marraige lasted 10 years. After which she returned to prostitution more and more, interspersed with heavy drinking, she lived in slum conditions.
      It is believed she was muredered by the unidentified Jack the Ripper in 1888.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      The ref to her relative is as follows..

      The relative is Kurt Blom. There are papers as to her family stretching back to 1698.
      His mother's father, Johan Ludvig, was Elizabeth's cousin.

      Part of Kurt's job is the archiving and photogaphing, recording etc of old documents and papers. He came across a family tree a few years ago, but unfortunately his mother had died before this and therefore he could not ask her anything. He saw the names of all the four children of Elizabeth's mother and father, Gustav Eriksson and Beate Carlsdotter. They were..

      1840 Anna Christin,
      1843 Elisabeth,
      1848 Carl Bernard
      1851 Svante.

      The only thing Kurt knew of Elizabeth was that she "went to town", meaning Gothenburg. Upon asking older relatives, they said very little and were reluctant to say any more.

      Elizabeth went to Gothenburg to stay with her sister (Anna Christin), who was married to a cobbler. It was her sister that found work for Elizabeth. After that, all went as is known, and her fall into prostitution followed after the pregnancy.

      Stefan Rantzow is in the process of compiling more data about the family. In the process of this he has discovered Elizabeth's brother's grave, in Gothenburg. Her brother, Carl Bernhard, died in 1908 and is buried together with his wife, Olena, b. 1837, who died in 1917.

      Elizabeth's sister was born in 1840, and died in 1916. Her grave, a pauper's gave, no longer exists.Neither does that of Bernhard Olsson, Elizabth's brother in law, who died in 1907/1908. (He was buried 3rd Jan 1908.)

      The photographs are by courtesy of Stefan Rantzow. He is to be heartily congratulated on finding these graves and the family details of Elizabeth Stride.


      I hope this helps.

      best wishes

      Phil
      Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


      Justice for the 96 = achieved
      Accountability? ....

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello all,

        The third page is mainly a reference to more present day relatives, visiting London, meeting and having guidance and help from Donald Rumbelow, a local Parish Vicar etc and visiting Elizabeth's grave in London.

        best wishes

        Phil
        Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


        Justice for the 96 = achieved
        Accountability? ....

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello Phil,

          Thank you very much. Anything that reminds us that they were once living breathing people, with families, just like us, helps personalize what would otherwise seem as a series of murders of forlorned and forgotten women. Its a shame that Liz would not have gained immortality in any other way.

          It would be great if there were some old family pictures of Liz before her descent.
          Best Wishes,
          Hunter
          ____________________________________________

          When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

          Comment


          • #6
            Many Thanks Lina and Phil.
            Really so helpful Phil that you translated it for us and a very interesting
            article.Cleary Elizabeth"s family disapproved of her once she became pregnant.She seems to have done a "geographical" coming to England,possibly to escape from her family.
            Best

            Norma

            Comment


            • #7
              Hunter, Norma,

              It seems Stefan Rantzow's awaited book will be interesting. There is no mention in the article of Svante's (Elizabeth's younger brother) development through life. Also, I notice that Stride is ALWAYS named as Elizabeth in Swedish articles, and our (British) shortening of her name comes from her time in London. (Long Liz)
              As regards a photograph, pre 1870? Seems very doubtful I fear.

              There is one more thing. The trip to Gothenburg is not just a walk. Torslanda is an area to the North East of Gothenburg, and there was a newspaper at the time that reported the death and occurance locally.
              This was called Skaraborgslan's Tidning. Skaraborgslan being the county at the time of her death. Torslanda was a very small village, and very picturesque. From where I live, after a ferry over the fjord to Sweden, it would take about 45mins to an hour to reach Torslanda. And about an hour and a half to reach Gothenburg. Of course, since those times it has expanded in area. I believe I first mentioned this in an old copy of Ripperana, years ago.
              That local newspaper seemed to get the info from the Stockholm newspapers, and the Gothenburg newspapers. "Tidning" means "Times" by the way.

              I have always thought of the stillborn child. Had that child survived, she would never have come to London. There is a chance that the child was named and buried, and I wonder if this new book has traced that possibility.
              Burials of stillborn children in the mid 1800's are known, though rare, and through my own research here, I have discovered that these children were buried in corners of churchyards, unmarked graves all. Rather like a pauper's grave, but the records of each church show the "birth". Many of these children, are of course, unnamed.,,, and registered only as "child of..." occasionally BOTH parents are listed as well. But in the case of single mothers, it is up to the descretion of the local vicar to decide what he enters into the church books.
              I suspect she( the stillborn girl) may well have been registered with BOTH parent's names, as the suggestion she(Elizabeth) gets away from Gothenburg because of her reputation would indicate this. A known male name causes much consternation in the case of a more well-to-do family. If Stride was the cause of this, pressure would very much be bought to bear that she moves as far away as possible. I have come across this situation a few times whilst researching genealogy here in Norway.

              best wishes

              Phil
              Last edited by Phil Carter; 01-30-2010, 12:58 AM.
              Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


              Justice for the 96 = achieved
              Accountability? ....

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks again Phil,
                My mother had a stillborn child four years after I was born.My parents named the dead child Margaret Rose -after my mother"s grandmother I believe.The baby couldnt be buried in the usual way so my father built her a little coffin and took it to his family plot in the local cemetary and the sexton allowed him to bury her there.I remember my father looked white that day.
                Its a very great shock for people when a child is born dead.Maybe it affected Elizabeth and was why she left Sweden as you imply.My mother became very ill,for a long time, after she lost my sister.

                Best

                Norma

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello Norma,

                  That is sad to read. Unfortunately, these occurrances happen. In the days olf Elizabeth Stride of course, cases of stillborn children was even more prevailant. One thing is certain. Elizabeth Stride deserves a lot more good thought than is generally given her by us all. A hard life is only part of the story, it seems.

                  best wishes

                  Phil
                  Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                  Justice for the 96 = achieved
                  Accountability? ....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes Phil,
                    Elizabeth Stride seems to have had a lot of resilience.I think she used to turn to several different skills she had to earn her living apart from prostitution.For example I think I read she could read write and translate from Swedish to English.She could also speak Yiddish and did cleaning for a Jewish family.But you can tell she didnt make a lot of money from anything she did -few did that we read about on here.

                    Best

                    Norma

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello you all!

                      Well, articles like this make the vics always a bit more human, something more than a piece for research!

                      Phil told already the main points of the articles, so no need to repeat them. But; an interesting point in one of the articles is, that it is not certain, if they (Liz and her London husband) had children or not!

                      Probably is just a speculation of the reporter, I think!

                      Anyway, tack ska du ha, Lina!

                      All the best
                      Jukka
                      "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello Jukka,

                        Indeed, and I suspect that she may well have lost another child at some time in London, the same way as sadly happened in Gothenburg. This MAY explain he reference to two children "having died" when she used the sinking of the ship on the Thames.
                        I think that mentally, she carried around the loss of that first child around with her all her life.

                        I would be interested to know if she ever travelled back to Gothenburg/Torslanda for a visit, during the 20 years she was away though.
                        Also, I would be very surprised if she didn't keep contact by letter with her family, especially her sister.

                        best wishes

                        Phil
                        Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                        Justice for the 96 = achieved
                        Accountability? ....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello Phil!

                          It might be, that we will find articles about her letters home sometime in the future!

                          Anyway, she did keep in touch with the Swedish parrish of London, if I remember correctely. So, maybe there are some notes in their archives about her contacts to Sweden there!

                          All the best
                          Jukka
                          "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Jukka and hi Phil!

                            I think there's probably a fair chance of finding some notes about the churchs contact with Strides' family. It was, after all, possible for researchers to find information about the alms she received from the swedish church in London on several occations.
                            Sombody must have told her family what had happened to her, and that would probably be her church. Or her sister may have contacted the church after a while.

                            In the article I posted a link to, her nephew is quoted as saying in his memoirs: "Mother had a sister, whos name was Elisabeth Gustafsdotter, residing in London. She had a so called bad place, where people boozed and drank beer, located just outside London. She was murdered by a much talked about man whos name was Jack the Ripper. We thought it was terrible when we were going home in the evenings. We used to run then for our lives down Koppargatan [a street]."

                            ...which I think proves that Strides sister did have contact with her and also that the sister knew something about what she was up to. I wonder who told her about what kind of place it was (the "bad place" referring to that coffee shop she had for a time, I suppose?). Was she really this frank with the people at home? Or did they find out through some other family members living in London?
                            And what made her go to London in the first place? Many swedes emigrated to America at that time. I think either she had family connections there or couldn't afford a ticked to the States.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello Lina,

                              VERY possibly correct... looking at the amount of time, 20 years or so she was in London, I am sure she either must have gone home for a family burial, or such like.
                              I suspect that Svante, her brother, will be a good place to start there, as it is often easier to trace the male line.

                              Takk så mye for innsatsen og behjelpligheten!!!
                              (For those not speaking any kind of Scandinavian language,,, that meant Thank you for your efforts and helpfulness!)

                              best wishes

                              Phil
                              Last edited by Phil Carter; 02-01-2010, 08:34 PM.
                              Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                              Justice for the 96 = achieved
                              Accountability? ....

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X