Have you seen this?

[Hunter]

Ally, I'd be ashamed; poping up from time to time talking about using reasoning. Get with the progaram girl. This is the twenty first century. The era of the new and improved Jack the Ripper story. Everyone's a victim; not just of the obvious crimes, but of life in general. And, only 2 women at the most were victims of the so called JTR anyway. Stride was a one off; probably killed by someone in the club. Eddowes and Kelly were done in by copycats and the killer of the first two liked their work so much that he decided to let them take over the business.

Besides that, these women weren't soliciting anyway. Nichols was begging. What better place than a deserted street. Chapman was hawking. She had her stand set up in the back of 29 Hanbury St. Stride had turned her life around and was waiting on a date at 1 a.m. in the morning- maybe to take in a late run of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde . Eddowes was working for the police and poor Kelly was killed by an intruder while trying to sleep it off. Heck, whoever the killer/ killers was/were didn't even take the organs anyway; that was done by the mortuary attendants. The police were covering it all up for... for... well, you pick your reason; whatever will stick will do.

And you come around talking about reason.

[Ally]

I love how when people speculate wildly about the Ripper women it is always to grace them with attributes of compassion and sadness and tragedy that we have no way of knowing they experienced.

Saying her parents turned away from her when she became pregnant is to deny that she was a prostitute before she became pregnant and they may well have turned against her long before the pregnancy for being a whore.

And for all we know she was delighted to have lost the baby so there would not have been a constant drag on her as she went about her prostitution, or interfered with her drunken partying ways. Maybe she lost the baby because she was already a degenerate alcoholic and couldn't have cared less about its demise.

Pretending you know how she reacted or what the circumstances were is pure folly and the opposite of reason.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello ian!

Well, the script-writers can always appeal to the thing told by her friends; she had no accent in her speech!

She had lost the Swedish touch somewhere, but who knows: maybe, while getting angry she used such Swedish expressions, that we don't want to repeat...

All the best
Jukka

[ianincleveland]

Hello Jukka,

Indeed, and I suspect that she may well have lost another child at some time in London, the same way as sadly happened in Gothenburg. This MAY explain he reference to two children "having died" when she used the sinking of the ship on the Thames.
I think that mentally, she carried around the loss of that first child around with her all her life.

I would be interested to know if she ever travelled back to Gothenburg/Torslanda for a visit, during the 20 years she was away though.
Also, I would be very surprised if she didn't keep contact by letter with her family, especially her sister.

best wishes

Phil

I agree there the loss of at least one stillborn child must have made poor woman seek refuge in alcohol and unfortunately she went on a long downward spiral.

Just an afterthought ive never seen a Ripper film where Liz has a Swedish accent

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lina,

VERY possibly correct... looking at the amount of time, 20 years or so she was in London, I am sure she either must have gone home for a family burial, or such like.
I suspect that Svante, her brother, will be a good place to start there, as it is often easier to trace the male line.

Takk så mye for innsatsen og behjelpligheten!!!
(For those not speaking any kind of Scandinavian language,,, that meant Thank you for your efforts and helpfulness!)

best wishes

Phil

[Lina]

Hi Jukka and hi Phil!

I think there's probably a fair chance of finding some notes about the churchs contact with Strides' family. It was, after all, possible for researchers to find information about the alms she received from the swedish church in London on several occations.
Sombody must have told her family what had happened to her, and that would probably be her church. Or her sister may have contacted the church after a while.

In the article I posted a link to, her nephew is quoted as saying in his memoirs: "Mother had a sister, whos name was Elisabeth Gustafsdotter, residing in London. She had a so called bad place, where people boozed and drank beer, located just outside London. She was murdered by a much talked about man whos name was Jack the Ripper. We thought it was terrible when we were going home in the evenings. We used to run then for our lives down Koppargatan [a street]."

...which I think proves that Strides sister did have contact with her and also that the sister knew something about what she was up to. I wonder who told her about what kind of place it was (the "bad place" referring to that coffee shop she had for a time, I suppose?). Was she really this frank with the people at home? Or did they find out through some other family members living in London?
And what made her go to London in the first place? Many swedes emigrated to America at that time. I think either she had family connections there or couldn't afford a ticked to the States.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Phil!

It might be, that we will find articles about her letters home sometime in the future!

Anyway, she did keep in touch with the Swedish parrish of London, if I remember correctely. So, maybe there are some notes in their archives about her contacts to Sweden there!

All the best
Jukka

[Phil Carter]

Hello Jukka,

Indeed, and I suspect that she may well have lost another child at some time in London, the same way as sadly happened in Gothenburg. This MAY explain he reference to two children "having died" when she used the sinking of the ship on the Thames.
I think that mentally, she carried around the loss of that first child around with her all her life.

I would be interested to know if she ever travelled back to Gothenburg/Torslanda for a visit, during the 20 years she was away though.
Also, I would be very surprised if she didn't keep contact by letter with her family, especially her sister.

best wishes

Phil

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Well, articles like this make the vics always a bit more human, something more than a piece for research!

Phil told already the main points of the articles, so no need to repeat them. But; an interesting point in one of the articles is, that it is not certain, if they (Liz and her London husband) had children or not!

Probably is just a speculation of the reporter, I think!

Anyway, tack ska du ha, Lina!

All the best
Jukka

[Natalie Severn]

Yes Phil,
Elizabeth Stride seems to have had a lot of resilience.I think she used to turn to several different skills she had to earn her living apart from prostitution.For example I think I read she could read write and translate from Swedish to English.She could also speak Yiddish and did cleaning for a Jewish family.But you can tell she didnt make a lot of money from anything she did -few did that we read about on here.

Best

Norma

[Phil Carter]

Hello Norma,

That is sad to read. Unfortunately, these occurrances happen. In the days olf Elizabeth Stride of course, cases of stillborn children was even more prevailant. One thing is certain. Elizabeth Stride deserves a lot more good thought than is generally given her by us all. A hard life is only part of the story, it seems.

best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks again Phil,
My mother had a stillborn child four years after I was born.My parents named the dead child Margaret Rose -after my mother"s grandmother I believe.The baby couldnt be buried in the usual way so my father built her a little coffin and took it to his family plot in the local cemetary and the sexton allowed him to bury her there.I remember my father looked white that day.
Its a very great shock for people when a child is born dead.Maybe it affected Elizabeth and was why she left Sweden as you imply.My mother became very ill,for a long time, after she lost my sister.

Best

Norma

[Phil Carter]

Hunter, Norma,

It seems Stefan Rantzow's awaited book will be interesting. There is no mention in the article of Svante's (Elizabeth's younger brother) development through life. Also, I notice that Stride is ALWAYS named as Elizabeth in Swedish articles, and our (British) shortening of her name comes from her time in London. (Long Liz)
As regards a photograph, pre 1870? Seems very doubtful I fear.

There is one more thing. The trip to Gothenburg is not just a walk. Torslanda is an area to the North East of Gothenburg, and there was a newspaper at the time that reported the death and occurance locally.
This was called Skaraborgslan's Tidning. Skaraborgslan being the county at the time of her death. Torslanda was a very small village, and very picturesque. From where I live, after a ferry over the fjord to Sweden, it would take about 45mins to an hour to reach Torslanda. And about an hour and a half to reach Gothenburg. Of course, since those times it has expanded in area. I believe I first mentioned this in an old copy of Ripperana, years ago.
That local newspaper seemed to get the info from the Stockholm newspapers, and the Gothenburg newspapers. "Tidning" means "Times" by the way.

I have always thought of the stillborn child. Had that child survived, she would never have come to London. There is a chance that the child was named and buried, and I wonder if this new book has traced that possibility.
Burials of stillborn children in the mid 1800's are known, though rare, and through my own research here, I have discovered that these children were buried in corners of churchyards, unmarked graves all. Rather like a pauper's grave, but the records of each church show the "birth". Many of these children, are of course, unnamed.,,, and registered only as "child of..." occasionally BOTH parents are listed as well. But in the case of single mothers, it is up to the descretion of the local vicar to decide what he enters into the church books.
I suspect she( the stillborn girl) may well have been registered with BOTH parent's names, as the suggestion she(Elizabeth) gets away from Gothenburg because of her reputation would indicate this. A known male name causes much consternation in the case of a more well-to-do family. If Stride was the cause of this, pressure would very much be bought to bear that she moves as far away as possible. I have come across this situation a few times whilst researching genealogy here in Norway.

best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Many Thanks Lina and Phil.
Really so helpful Phil that you translated it for us and a very interesting
article.Cleary Elizabeth"s family disapproved of her once she became pregnant.She seems to have done a "geographical" coming to England,possibly to escape from her family.
Best

Norma

[Hunter]

Hello Phil,

Thank you very much. Anything that reminds us that they were once living breathing people, with families, just like us, helps personalize what would otherwise seem as a series of murders of forlorned and forgotten women. Its a shame that Liz would not have gained immortality in any other way.

It would be great if there were some old family pictures of Liz before her descent.