Did jack kill liz stride?

[Hunter]

Corey
Hunter,

No apologies needed. I was only stating that I have read almost every post on this thread(sad I started the thread and have not read it all).

Yes, and it got to wandering around a little too

About your comment to Abby, I had always managed to believe he strangled them from the FRONT gradually working his way to the ground and commencing the throat wound, then so on and so on.

yours truly

The evidence on Nichols and Chapman suggest that they were strangled to unconsiousness, initially - i.e. swollen tongue etc- before their throats were cut. The Doctor at Nichols' inquest thought that she was attacked from the front because of bruises on her face, but it is my opinion that he was less than professional in his preliminary examination and at the morgue ( he also thought the killer was left handed). The marks on her face could have easily been made from behind with the left hand covering her mouth- Ditto Chapman and Eddowes. With the exception, possibly, of Stride, they were all well intoxicated.

Street prostitutes serviced their clients standing up and from behind as this was less awkward. I believe it was at that moment when they were attacked. Of course, this has strayed from the original intent of the thread so I won't extrapolate on this any farther at this time.

Best Wishes,
Hunter

[Sam Flynn]

I think we are saying the same thing to some extent. For the events to happen as they did and not be connected seem unlikely but not impossible. And, just because they seem unlikely to not be connected does not make it probable that they are connected. Hope that makes sense?

Perfect sense, pr1mate, and it tallies with what I said - although I'd also add that the probability of Stride's being attacked by an independent killer is really not beyond the bounds of everyday experience, even though it may appear subjectively unlikely to us.

[corey123]

Yes, and it got to wandering around a little too




The evidence on Nichols and Chapman suggest that they were strangled to unconsiousness, initially - i.e. swollen tongue etc- before their throats were cut. The Doctor at Nichols' inquest thought that she was attacked from the front because of bruises on her face, but it is my opinion that he was less than professional in his preliminary examination and at the morgue ( he also thought the killer was left handed). The marks on her face could have easily been made from behind with the left hand covering her mouth- Ditto Chapman and Eddowes. With the exception, possibly, of Stride, they were all well intoxicated.

Street prostitutes serviced their clients standing up and from behind as this was less awkward. I believe it was at that moment when they were attacked. Of course, this has strayed from the original intent of the thread so I won't extrapolate on this any farther at this time.

Best Wishes,
Hunter

Hunter,

If you are talking about Dr.Rees Ralph Lewellyn, he is the more arrogant and idioctic of all the doctors in the murder. I tend to ignor all his initial statements. among them include, the assesment that the killer was left handed. The assesment that the mutilations were not Post mortem and occured befor the throat wound, and that he believed the killer cut Nichols throat while she was standing upright.

I truly ignor Lewellyn.

Yours truly

[Trevor Marriott]

Hunter,

No apologies needed. I was only stating that I have read almost every post on this thread(sad I started the thread and have not read it all).

About your comment to Abby, I had always managed to believe he strangled them from the FRONT gradually working his way to the ground and commencing the throat wound, then so on and so on.

yours truly

As far as Eddowes was concerned her throat was cut from behind whilst she was standing up and the killer was right handed.

As far as her abdominal wound is concerned it was not a surgical incision. The knife entered her lower abdomen and was then drawn up.

"The truth is still out there"

[corey123]

Trevor,

Some of the statements you have made I disagree with.

For one, the only murder of the five that I believe he "blitz" attacked was Liz.

Eddowes may have been killed while standing upright but I would lean more toward her lying down.
The only evidence I would say indicates that she was killed while standing up would be the blood flow.

And whether the killer ripped her upwards or downwards beats me. I dont think we could reach a steady conclusion on that, but a scetch of her body shows it would be more proabably that she was cut from the sternum downward.

[Sam Flynn]

And whether the killer ripped [Eddowes' abdomen] upwards or downwards beats me.

Downwards, Corey, as you suggest - and, indeed, as Dr Brown stated.

Anyhow, that's firmly in Eddowes territory, and this is a Stride thread.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,

Some of the statements you have made I disagree with.

For one, the only murder of the five that I believe he "blitz" attacked was Liz.

Eddowes may have been killed while standing upright but I would lean more toward her lying down.
The only evidence I would say indicates that she was killed while standing up would be the blood flow.

And whether the killer ripped her upwards or downwards beats me. I dont think we could reach a steady conclusion on that, but a scetch of her body shows it would be more proabably that she was cut from the sternum downward.

Well my friend you belive what you want to beleive sadly like so many others on here you are so set in your beliefs and theories that no matter what is said or put in front of them they will not accept the true facts.

[Hunter]

Hunter,

If you are talking about Dr.Rees Ralph Lewellyn, he is the more arrogant and idioctic of all the doctors in the murder.

I truly ignore Lewellyn.

Yours truly

Yep, he's the one.

Stride's case is difficult on many levels, besides speculating if she belongs in the canonicals- Conflicting testimonies, times not in sequence, the fact that she was killed near a largely Jewish anarchist club- would make Sherlock Holmes scratch his head. Just think, if she had been mutilated few people would doubt that one murderer killed all five and maybe some of the others as well. She's the fly in the ointment- so to speak.

Best Wishes,
Hunter

[corey123]

Gareth,

Hey I started this thread, I hope that gives me a bit of space to go off coarse.

Trevor,

Please tell me of the "facts" that I refuse to see.

Thanks.

[FrankO]

As Tom and I discussed Yesterday, I have no idea how he would have gotten her to the ground without a struggle and then cut her throat. Its a mystery among others in this case.

Hi Hunter,

If you think it happened more or less as follows, there really isn't much of a mystery.

The killer grabbed the scarf from behind with his left hand while she’s facing the gates. He immediately and forcefully pulls her backwards, making the bow shift to the left of her neck before the scarf is too tight to move freely. Because of the suddenness of the attack she doesn't scream immediately, but when she wants to, the back pull and tightness of the scarf prevent her to.

Him pulling her backwards from her left side makes her spin on her left side while she’s falling. He steps backwards while keeping hold of her scarf and cuts her throat as soon as she hits the ground. By keeping the scarf pulled tight he keeps her head off the ground, that way leaving him enough room to maneuver his knife between her neck and the ground. Perhaps she falls against him, breaking her fall a bit. Her bonnet ends a couple of inches from her head. All this is a matter of just a few seconds.

All the best,
Frank

[Trevor Marriott]

Gareth,

Hey I started this thread, I hope that gives me a bit of space to go off coarse.

Trevor,

Please tell me of the "facts" that I refuse to see.

Thanks.

Sorry you will have to work it out for yourself i made a new years resolution not to ever state factual evidence on here again. Already broke it with the recent Tumblety discussion dont intend to do so again. Its time for the posters on here who received rose tinted spectacles for christmas to now take them off and throw them away. A whole new world of Ripperology awaits them !

"The truth is still out there"

[Rick Mattix]

I'd vote on the poll if there was a "maybe" category. Nothing sways me completely either way here. We just don't know. I realize that's probably true of everything connected with the case.

[FrankO]

The marks on her face could have easily been made from behind with the left hand covering her mouth-

Hi again Hunter,

I don’t think the marks of Nichols’s face were made by putting a left hand over her mouth from behind. Because if so, the circular bruise would have been on her right cheek, but it was on her left. Furthermore, the pressure mark on her other cheek would then not have ended up on ‘the lower part of the jaw’, but higher up on her face. The thumb would more or less have been pointing upwards, not downwards.

All the best,
Frank

[corey123]

Trevor,

Fair enough. . Yes the truth is out there.

Yours truly

[Hunter]

Hi Hunter,

If you think it happened more or less as follows, there really isn't much of a mystery.

The killer grabbed the scarf from behind with his left hand while she’s facing the gates. He immediately and forcefully pulls her backwards, making the bow shift to the left of her neck before the scarf is too tight to move freely. Because of the suddenness of the attack she doesn't scream immediately, but when she wants to, the back pull and tightness of the scarf prevent her to.

Him pulling her backwards from her left side makes her spin on her left side while she’s falling. He steps backwards while keeping hold of her scarf and cuts her throat as soon as she hits the ground. By keeping the scarf pulled tight he keeps her head off the ground, that way leaving him enough room to maneuver his knife between her neck and the ground. Perhaps she falls against him, breaking her fall a bit. Her bonnet ends a couple of inches from her head. All this is a matter of just a few seconds.

Hi Frank,

That is an excellent hypothesis. Well thought out. Its what is needed on this thread.

Trevor,
Well... I don't want to go there because of my previous paragraph.

Best Wishes,
Hunter