The Berner Street Con(spiracy)

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Hi PI

I'll skip the map request primarily because I don't believe Charles was in any way involved in Strides death.

I said to Christen Holmgren when his book came out that I found the idea of him visiting his mother, stopping off to kill Stride and then gravitating off to Mitre Square was probably the weakest part of the Lechmere case. It's speculation built upon speculation. (Decent book all the same and worth a read).

I have seen it stated that Maria lived on Cable Street, so not a ridiculous error really. Cable Street, Mary Ann Street, it doesn't make a difference anyway if one doesn't have him as a murderer.

Thanks for your reply, ABE.

The substance of my argument - that Lechmere would have had to travel north-westwards in order to have committed the murders - is unchanged even if Lechmere's mother lived in Mary Ann Street rather than Cable Street, because either way he had to proceed from Berner Street a mile westwards to Mitre Square.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

I suppose you had to answer because Sergeant Mark JD considered it beneath his dignity to answer me directly.

I suggest you upload a map showing how Dutfield's Yard was on the route from Maria Lechmere's home to Charles Lechmere's home, and how Mitre Square is also on that route.

Or perhaps ask the sergeant to do it for you.

Hi PI

I'll skip the map request primarily because I don't believe Charles was in any way involved in Strides death.

I said to Christen Holmgren when his book came out that I found the idea of him visiting his mother, stopping off to kill Stride and then gravitating off to Mitre Square was probably the weakest part of the Lechmere case. It's speculation built upon speculation. (Decent book all the same and worth a read).

I have seen it stated that Maria lived on Cable Street, so not a ridiculous error really. Cable Street, Mary Ann Street, it doesn't make a difference anyway if one doesn't have him as a murderer.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Charles' mother lived on Mary Ann Street, pretty much due south of Berner St.

I suppose you had to answer because Sergeant Mark JD considered it beneath his dignity to answer me directly.

I suggest you upload a map showing how Dutfield's Yard was on the route from Maria Lechmere's home to Charles Lechmere's home, and how Mitre Square is also on that route.

Or perhaps ask the sergeant to do it for you.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Charles' mother lived on Mary Ann Street, pretty much due south of Berner St.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Not me, that's for sure.

M.

You don't deny that you wrote that I am out of control?

[Mark J D]

Not me, that's for sure.

M.

[Mark J D]

... Cable Street, where Lechmere's mother lived...

-- Who is gonna tell him?

M.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Out. Of. Control.

M.

If you are saying that I am out of control, that is obviously an inappropriate remark.


I wrote:


Lechmere would have had to walk north-west to get to Berner Street from his mother's house ...



What I wrote is correct.

Here is a present-day map showing a route from Cable Street, where Lechmere's mother lived, to Henriques Street, which was formerly known as Berner Street:







It is quite obvious that Berner Street was north-west of Cable Street.


What do you have to say to that, other than issue gratuitous insults?


P.S. If you meant that Lechmere, and not I, was out of control, then you should have made that clear.

[Mark J D]

Lechmere would have had to walk north-west to get to Berner Street from his mother's house [...]

Out. Of. Control.

M.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

To me it's more likely that the killer was a person no-one had any reason to notice -- Lechmere walking north on his way home from his mother's house in Maryann Street, likely after a few Saturday night bevvies in one of his old locals.

Lechmere would have had to walk north-west to get to Berner Street from his mother's house - the wrong direction as he would have had to go north-eastwards in order to get home.

And if he was on his way home, why would he then travel a further mile westwards to the City of London?

[John Wheat]

To me it's more likely that the killer was a person no-one had any reason to notice -- Lechmere walking north on his way home from his mother's house in Maryann Street, likely after a few Saturday night bevvies in one of his old locals. He doesn't see the angry, rejected punter's assault on Stride (who is not soliciting that night); an agitated Schwartz and Pipeman pass him going south; he then encounters a shaken and tearful Stride in the gateway of the Club -- a club he walked past hundreds of times when he lived in James Street; a Club for Jews who want to tear down all the structures of society, damn stinking, jabbering foreigners. Stride tells him of the assault and the different people passing -- and suddenly he realises he can piggy-back on that attack and its witnesses. He's already left a body near Robert Paul's workplace to try and implicate him; now he's going to leave one -- in fact, two, if he can manage it -- next to Jewish organisations. But, not being in his work clothes on Saturday night, he doesn't have his usual knife; so he either reaches for his little clasp knife or gets something from the deserted Club kitchen on the pretext of looking for a woman to help Stride tidy herself up. Either way, it's the wrong kind of knife, and he has alcohol in his system, so he doesn't do a neat job; but she's still dead and next to building full of radical Jews, and everyone will soon be looking for the man with broad shoulders seen throwing her to the ground...

M.

There's no evidence Lechmere was the Ripper and the rest of your post is pure fantasy too.

[Mark J D]

If Pipeman was Stride's murderer, I would be seriously stuck for a motive unless he was JtR, taking advantage of the situation after the 'assault' by BS man, as witnessed by Schwartz.

To me it's more likely that the killer was a person no-one had any reason to notice -- Lechmere walking north on his way home from his mother's house in Maryann Street, likely after a few Saturday night bevvies in one of his old locals. He doesn't see the angry, rejected punter's assault on Stride (who is not soliciting that night); an agitated Schwartz and Pipeman pass him going south; he then encounters a shaken and tearful Stride in the gateway of the Club -- a club he walked past hundreds of times when he lived in James Street; a Club for Jews who want to tear down all the structures of society, damn stinking, jabbering foreigners. Stride tells him of the assault and the different people passing -- and suddenly he realises he can piggy-back on that attack and its witnesses. He's already left a body near Robert Paul's workplace to try and implicate him; now he's going to leave one -- in fact, two, if he can manage it -- next to Jewish organisations. But, not being in his work clothes on Saturday night, he doesn't have his usual knife; so he either reaches for his little clasp knife or gets something from the deserted Club kitchen on the pretext of looking for a woman to help Stride tidy herself up. Either way, it's the wrong kind of knife, and he has alcohol in his system, so he doesn't do a neat job; but she's still dead and next to building full of radical Jews, and everyone will soon be looking for the man with broad shoulders seen throwing her to the ground...

M.

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

If Pipeman was Stride's murderer, I would be seriously stuck for a motive unless he was JtR, taking advantage of the situation after the 'assault' by BS man, as witnessed by Schwartz.

Love,

Caz
X

I agree Caz, but is that not a reasonable possibility?

Cheers, George

[Abby Normal]

also never understood the fascination with Pipeman over BS - waste of time. After 130 odd years there is little to work with so what is wrong with the most logical explanation. Given the time constraints the man who was seen assaulting stride must be the prime suspect. People on here just love tying themselves in knots with theories a lot more complicated than have any sort of mileage. Look at Trevor and his crackers apron BS!

i couldnt agree more. bs man was her killer and the ripper

[caz]

Hi Caz,

Thank you for the information on the use of "Ha Ha" in the Victorian era, a fact of which I was completely unaware. I am not convinced the Dear Boss and Saucy Jack letters were authored by JtR. I think that the "From Hell" letter is more likely in that regard.

I am more inclined to agree with your proposal for Pipeman being the culprit, taking the opportunity for a kill which witness testimony would point at someone else, rather than it being that someone else. That would also explain him making a move towards Schwartz to see him off, but not following him. I think Schwartz was too busy running away to know how far Pipeman followed. It would seem a little early for Diemshitz's return but since no-one knows the where-abouts of Parcelman at this time, he may have played a part in an interruption, or just someone leaving the club (the Wess story). Alternatively, if the killer wasn't JtR then mutilations may not have been part of the intention at all.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

If Pipeman was Stride's murderer, I would be seriously stuck for a motive unless he was JtR, taking advantage of the situation after the 'assault' by BS man, as witnessed by Schwartz.

Love,

Caz
X