Those Damned Cachous

[GUT]

Hoping to be hired to help clean the club after the meeting seems most likely to me. The club members don't strike me as the sort who hired cleaning women for their homes.

Sorry that's what I meant looking for work cleaning the club rather than looking for work cleaning houses as opposed to being already engaged to work that night.

Already have the work seemed unlikely as surely someone at the club would have said something.

I would have thought that a busy club would have had cleaners but there was a lot of piece work in those days, so it's possible.

[Ginger]

Do you mean waiting to start work cleaning? Or looking for cleaning work?

Hoping to be hired to help clean the club after the meeting seems most likely to me. The club members don't strike me as the sort who hired cleaning women for their homes.

[GUT]

What is one thing that we can say about Elizabeth Stride that likely has bearing on why she was where she was in the first place?

The woman cleaned.

She was employed in the weeks leading up to her death as a cleaner, she spent mot of her life as a charwoman, she even sought char work when she was a teenage prostitute in Sweden, getting herself a job taking care of some children and being struck from the official prostitute register in Goteborg.

I have yet to see any argument that would supersede that knowledge we have of her as it may apply to her being outside a club that just hosted a large meeting. She was at work with the Jews in her most recent past, why would anyone discount her being at the club for the same reasons?

It makes no sense to do so.

Cheers

Do you mean waiting to start work cleaning? Or looking for cleaning work?

[Batman]

A few pages back I posted the fencing response.

Clutching responses can happen with head trauma.

[Abby Normal]

No sorry, Abby. Did not mean to sound sarcastic (although I do wonder why the cachous are such a problem for a few).

I understand you and I agree with you, Abby.

As Rocky just posted, Stride probably made a fist around the cachous.
But I guess Stride just has bigger balls than those who think she should have dropped them. I know I wouldn`t like to have upset Ms Stride.

Thanks Jon
That's what I think. She simply clutched onto them through the attack by B-man.

If she can hold onto them to death while getting her throat cut, surely she could hold onto them through the B-man attack.

[RockySullivan]

The stride murder is so visceral, you can almost smell the pipe tobacco and taste the candies and wasn't it rainy too

[Michael W Richards]

What is one thing that we can say about Elizabeth Stride that likely has bearing on why she was where she was in the first place?

The woman cleaned.

She was employed in the weeks leading up to her death as a cleaner, she spent mot of her life as a charwoman, she even sought char work when she was a teenage prostitute in Sweden, getting herself a job taking care of some children and being struck from the official prostitute register in Goteborg.

I have yet to see any argument that would supersede that knowledge we have of her as it may apply to her being outside a club that just hosted a large meeting. She was at work with the Jews in her most recent past, why would anyone discount her being at the club for the same reasons?

It makes no sense to do so.

Cheers

[Errata]

The Times, 1st Oct.
".... and in her left she held a number of sweetmeats."

So what do we look for?

Found something. When in doubt, start looking at the periphery.

"Bonbonnières were small containers used to carry sweetmeats or cachous, tiny lozenges dissolved in the mouth to sweeten the breath.

These lozenges were also used to calm a cough or settle the stomach. They were made of sugar paste often flavored with aromatic oils such as cloves, mint, or flowers (like violets and roses). English bonbonnières often copied the designs of the Meissen porcelain factory. The often bore the likeness of animal or human heads."

As described by the 18th Century Material Culture Resource Center.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/250985442/Bonbonniere-s#scribd

I remember the ones I got in an old apothecary in Paris when I was 18 that purportedly still used to same recipes as when it open 150 years previous, they were made of sugar paste, bland, kind of chalky. But it's not like I got provenance with the candy.

We know that sweetmeats does not just apply to boiled sweets. Turkish Delight is a sweetmeat. And disgusting. So "sweetmeat" does not apply to texture.

But sugar paste candies are things like sweethearts, necco wafer, etc.

[RockySullivan]

I don't think the cachous rule out BS man but I kind of think pipeman was with him

[Jon Guy]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, but I meant held onto them through the BS man attack. Sorry I wasn't clear.

No sorry, Abby. Did not mean to sound sarcastic (although I do wonder why the cachous are such a problem for a few).

I understand you and I agree with you, Abby.

As Rocky just posted, Stride probably made a fist around the cachous.
But I guess Stride just has bigger balls than those who think she should have dropped them. I know I wouldn`t like to have upset Ms Stride.

[RockySullivan]

I do think if liz was defending herself against BS man she would have clutched the cachous inside her fist rather than drop them and use her closed fist as a defense. Why drop the candy? That's what I would do. I'm quite fond of candy though especially if it's licorice flavored

[RockySullivan]

I thought they were the licorice hard candy like these http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cachou_Lajaunie and all thought I don't read French it has 1880 as the date.

[lynn cates]

narrative

Hello Jon.

"Just because Schwartz did not see someone in the shadows of the yard, especially when his attention was taken by BS-man, does not mean nobody was there.

That possibility puts a completely different picture on the outcome."

Indeed. So, IF Liz were with someone, he would be slightly inside the yard whilst Liz was just outside--near the gate. I presume she is facing west, conversing with the bloke.

Now, BSM appears from the north and stops to chat. She turns and answers.

Finish?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Whence?

Hello Errata. Excellent. That's the kind of reconstruction I find beneficial.

So, summing up, AFTER the BSM event, Liz is shaken and goes near the side door. Although not smoking, as she begins heading out the passageway, she decides on a cashou. She pauses and is suddenly attacked.

Did her attacker come from:

1. the side door

or

2. the privy?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Thanks for clarifying that Jon.

I've been trying to find out for ages just what they were too and everytime I think I've found the answer it changes.

The Times, 1st Oct.
".... and in her left she held a number of sweetmeats."

So what do we look for?