Those Damned Cachous

[lynn cates]

unusual

Hello Velma.

"Perhaps victims continuing to hold items in their hands is not as unusual as we perhaps think?"

Not if:

1. victim had something in hand before the assault

2. hand clenched around item

3. item did not get knocked out

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Only in ripperology can something as seemingly innocuous as breath freshioners be used to bolster several possible theories about how a woman lived her last day on earth. If you really stop and analyze it, it's kind of nuts.

Mike

[curious]

Hello Curious,

We refer to Liz's encounter with the B.S. man as an attack but we have no way of knowing the B.S. man's intentions. Rather than trying to seriously hurt her she simply could have fallen if their legs became entangled or they were pulling in opposite directions and he suddenly let go. It could also simply have been a shove with a "that will teach you to mouth off to me, bitch" thrown in for good measure.

c.d.

True, c.d., We don't really know anything about B.S. man.

Doesn't one report have him pulling her?

And since one of Stride's legs was weak, she might have been more likely to fall than someone with two strong legs.

curious

[curious]

I don't see why it's such a crazy idea that a woman who owned silk and a nice wardrobe shouldn't also own a packet of cachous. There's an assumption that she was gifted or purchased the cachous on the evening of her death, but that's purely an assumption.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi, Tom,
I agree with you and think it more likely that she purchased the cachous for herself. I personally like to keep gum or mints in my purse, why would 1888 women be any different no matter what their profession.

The green velvet has always made me wonder when and where Stride acquired it.

curious

[c.d.]

Like putting a fresh coat of paint on an old house you're trying to sell... or in this case... rent out.

With that comment, Hunter, I think you are out of the running for this year's Mr. Sensitivity award.

c.d.

[Hunter]

Like putting a fresh coat of paint on an old house you're trying to sell... or in this case... rent out.

[c.d.]

And if she were trying to attract men, they would be an investment which hopefully could result in money for a bed, alcohol or food.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

Agreed. For that matter, why couldn't a woman who had ragged clothes have them as well? They only cost a few pennies did they not?

c.d.

No one says they couldn't. But a few pennies could buy alcohol, food, or a bed. In any event, Stride was not in desperate need of any of these things, so it doesn't surprise me that she should have possessed cachous.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

I don't see why it's such a crazy idea that a woman who owned silk and a nice wardrobe shouldn't also own a packet of cachous. There's an assumption that she was gifted or purchased the cachous on the evening of her death, but that's purely an assumption.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Agreed. For that matter, why couldn't a woman who had ragged clothes have them as well? They only cost a few pennies did they not?

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

I don't see why it's such a crazy idea that a woman who owned silk and a nice wardrobe shouldn't also own a packet of cachous. There's an assumption that she was gifted or purchased the cachous on the evening of her death, but that's purely an assumption.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

I certainly can't discount the cachous being a gift. I keep a tin of Altoids at my desk at work. It is not uncommon to offer one to somebody and have them say "why, do I need one?" Could that elicit the same response in 1888?

c.d.

[c.d.]

I also don't find it odd that a woman who it would appear solicited from time to time would invest in breath fresheners. She was missing some teeth so it is a reasonable conclusion that she suffered from a lack of dental care and thus had bad breath. Not a good way to attract men. Hence the cachous.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Curious,

We refer to Liz's encounter with the B.S. man as an attack but we have no way of knowing the B.S. man's intentions. Rather than trying to seriously hurt her she simply could have fallen if their legs became entangled or they were pulling in opposite directions and he suddenly let go. It could also simply have been a shove with a "that will teach you to mouth off to me, bitch" thrown in for good measure.

c.d.

[curious]

I also can't see a client giving them to her as a sort of present. Why give a gift to somebody that you are paying for sex?

c.d.

Hi, c.d.
There's a thread running through these murders of the victims all having something new, or fairly new, which could indicate little gifts.

Perhaps it would be the killer's way of playing a cat and mouse game with his victims, savoring what was to come . . . setting them up to trust him.

But, it could have just as easily (perhaps more easily) have been someone who grabbed them in the dark.

curious

[curious]

I think Liz was involved in two separate encounters.

c.d.

Hi, c.d.
That has always been my take on things, too.

Either that or the B.S. Man encounter never happened at all. Stide could have split from the man she was seen with, went through Dutfield's yard to the privy, then was headed back to the street (taking out her sweeteners on the walk back) when she was grabbed by someone in the darkness.

The example David used and my recent example of people holding on to things even in death are both, I believe, of people who have been choked to death -- my fella with a cord round his neck -- I suggest Stride most likely was too, but her scarf prevented marks on her neck.

Yes, strange as it seems, Stride could have encountered abuse from 2 separate men -- if B.S. man existed.

curious